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Data centers need power – lower income, rural residents pay the price

23 points PaulHoule 36 minutes ago 26 comments

austin-cheney 24 minutes ago | parent

Yes, absolutely. What do local residents get out of the data centers?

I remember earlier this year somebody posted the results of a large survey that concluded most people would rather have a nuclear power plant in their backyard than a data center. Of course everybody would rather have nuclear power plant in their backyard because then they get cheap, clean, reliable electricity. They get nothing from the data center except competition for basic utilities.

I also remember how the person couldn't believe the results and found them astonishing. WTF. This just reinforced for me how so many people in technology are either narcissistic, short sighted (exceptionally naive), or have some sort of qualified mental health defect.

doctorpangloss 23 minutes ago | parent

i don't believe it. where are all the nuclear power plants then? they are unpopular almost everywhere...

Vasbarlog 17 minutes ago | parent

Now that renewables are so cheap, nuclear plants are not cost effective and require massive subsidies by the state.

PaulHoule 14 minutes ago | parent

Cheap when the sun is shining during the day.

wk_end 5 minutes ago | parent

Wind is a thing, batteries are a thing, hydro is a thing...

Maybe all that's still not going to cover you in all cases, but...I'm not anti-nuclear by any means, but my understanding is that the upfront costs are very high and take a long time to recoup even in the best of cases. If it's only used as a backup for when cheaper renewable energy can't be generated or bought I'm not sure if the economics will ever work out anymore.

georgemcbay 16 minutes ago | parent

The claim being made wasn't that nuclear power is universally popular, just that it is way more popular than datacenters.

People (in the US anyway, ymmv elsewhere) really, really hate datacenters.

PaulHoule 15 minutes ago | parent

The trouble w/ nuclear power plants isn't that the public hates them, it's that the bond market hates them. Even the sticker price is a little bit too expensive but it usually seems to take several times more money and time to build one than anticipated.

dsr_ 14 minutes ago | parent

... People don't pay directly for either nuclear power plants or datacenters. The closest they come to affecting this is by passing and enforcing zoning regulations.

In any case, most of us would rather have one beating than six, but that doesn't mean we want one beating.

richwater 18 minutes ago | parent

Tax revenue from otherwise undesirable land.

There's a reason lots of data centers are built around airports (already noisy) or in places that can't support other types of development for some reason.

Many local governments have failed in their responsibility to constituents in approving placement of DCs that should or could have better local projects like housing or retail.

unrented7977 12 minutes ago | parent

Datacenters are getting sweetheart tax deals, and likely will pay way less in taxes than the people do because in the great US of A corporations can simply not pay taxes.

Do you have another argument that doesn't rely on trickle-down economics?

AnimalMuppet 13 minutes ago | parent

What they get out of not having the nuclear power plant is not getting unexplained cancer in 10 or 20 years.

You can tell them as much as you want how safe nuclear power is. You may even be right. But after Fukushima, and Three Mile Island, and Chernobyl, they don't believe you that it will reliably stay safe forever.

unrented7977 11 minutes ago | parent

How about everyone living downstream of coal plants?

j45 18 minutes ago | parent

It's important to remember that datacenter news is about the countries they're built in.

Not all buildings are built or powered the same way in all countries based on the weather of their location.

American lenses about American Datacenters will be about whats happening in America, not other places.

hathawsh 13 minutes ago | parent

I struggle to understand why data centers are seen as a problem rather than an opportunity. Cities and counties can charge a high property tax to data centers and the residents can benefit. They might even give residents a dividend from the data center property tax. What's wrong with that plan?

darth_avocado 8 minutes ago | parent

Do you want a costco right next to your house? I believe you could do the same with a Costco, property tax, employment, yada yada

WokeUp420 8 minutes ago | parent

Pollution, resources and increased utility costs to name a few.

alistairSH 8 minutes ago | parent

The article discussed this... data centers don't pay for the infrastructure upgrades they need to operate - the majority of that cost gets foisted on the public. They also drive up the wholesale cost of electricity, which means we all pay more for it.

Both are solvable with politicians who can be held accountable. But, in many locations, they aren't accountable and can only be trusted to do what's in the interest of their largest donors.

That's all ignoring the various other externalities... aesthetics, noise, pollution.

But, 100%, if a county/town has an underutilized industrial zone, they should build data centers there. But, it also appears data center developers prefer undeveloped plots. Again, also solvable, but somebody needs to do so.

sega_sai 8 minutes ago | parent

In my understanding, if anything, data centers get tax breaks, rather than increased taxes.

dietr1ch 6 minutes ago | parent

tax breaks on top of subsidized infrastructure as the utility companies now invest more in infrastructure and raise the prices for all preexisting clients to pay for it.

tcdent 6 minutes ago | parent

Furthermore, why is it assumed that as power demand and capacity rises, that prices would rise? In every other market prices drop at scale.

233mhz 6 minutes ago | parent

> What's wrong with that plan?

Well, that's not the plan. The plan is massive tax cut, infrastructure built with public money and... that's it!

__MatrixMan__ 5 minutes ago | parent

Money is made up. Access to water air and enough quiet to sleep in is real.