YHK - yet another hacker news clone

Your TV can see through walls

165 points Curiositry 7 hours ago 61 comments

thopterek 6 hours ago | parent

Thank you for more paranoia

rightnutwingjob 6 hours ago | parent

π RuView turns commodity WiFi signals into real-time spatial intelligence, vital sign monitoring, and presence detection — all without a single pixel of video.

https://github.com/ruvnet/RuView

inexcf 4 hours ago | parent

Just so anyone who reads this knows: This is a well known SCAM repo. The install instructions are incomplete and when you manage to get it running you will realize the data it produces is just random except for pre-recorded simulated data. If you check youtube for it you will find hundreds of completely AI generated Videos with not one of them showing the actual thing working. And all while trying to sell you some hardware.

https://github.com/deletexiumu/wifi-densepose " SCAM ALERT: Technical audit reveals this project is a non-functional AI-generated facade with fake CSI data, no trained models, and suspected star inflation"

NoboruWataya 37 minutes ago | parent

Slight aside, but I went to look at some of the open issues on that ruvnet repo to see if this is discussed. It's quite an eery feeling reading through them. Every "discussion" is just bots talking to bots.

neverbeenasked 3 hours ago | parent

yeah, now I gotta unplug TV too

sweetdingoes 2 hours ago | parent

Awareness of possibilities is not paranoia. One implies sickness. Healthism?

ThePumpkinGod 6 hours ago | parent

So, a bad actor can now know when I'm at my house or not, I'm sure that's fine and won't be problematic

rightnutwingjob 6 hours ago | parent

Even having three security cameras around the perimeter of your house can allow quite precise location and activity detection inside the house via their audio steams.

Those mics can be quite sensitive.

ThePumpkinGod 5 hours ago | parent

I don't have security cameras in my house but that's actually interesting to see how things most people have in their house can (and does?) used to spy on them.

pmontra 2 hours ago | parent

Phones and smart TVs, probably other appliances. My SO used to be surprised to receive ads about stuff we talked about minutes before. I finally looked at her phone, disabled a bunch of things in the stock Android settings, those timely ads went away. I didn't even have to install Blockada, uBO for FF (and uMatrix and other addons) like I do on my devices.

wafflemaker 2 hours ago | parent

Can you elaborate on what did you disable?

I feel like by disabling ads in most devices, I'm also taking away the best source of information on what bad actors (here ad companies) managed to exfiltrate about me.

If there only was a way to sell ad space about myself and learn from it what others know.

pmontra 47 minutes ago | parent

I mailed her a summary for future reference. It's quite detailed but it was not in English and the phone was not in English too. So forgive me but I asked Claude to translate it and guess the right menu and option names for an English Android. It should be enough to give you the idea of what I did. It was a Samsung phone, not a S series.

Here it is:

---

Tapping <first name last name> at the top of Settings opens the Samsung account notice, and the Terms of Service show as not accepted. I'm leaving them unaccepted and not continuing.

1. Security and privacy

Controls and alerts: left Microphone access on, because permissions will be set individually per app.

More privacy settings:

Send diagnostic data

Set to Off

Samsung

Improve personalized ads based on data from this phone: you have to go to the Samsung account settings.

Receive news and special offers on this phone: same

Customization Service for your phone: same

Going to Accounts and backup > Samsung Cloud > Data backed up: there is no data being backed up to Samsung.

Going to Samsung Cloud shows that Bluetooth, Calendar, Contacts and Wi-Fi are synced.

Google

Google personalization service: set to Off

Permission manager:

Switched to Ask every time:

  - Chrome
  - Maps
  - Meet
  - Facebook
  - Google
  - Messages
  - Speech Recognition & Synthesis from Google
  - Samsung Keyboard
  - TikTok
Still set to "Allowed only while in use": Camera and WhatsApp

Activity controls

Web & App Activity: turned off, but I did not delete the history

Timeline (Location History): was already off since January 1, 2025

YouTube History: left on

Personalized ads:

  - My Ad Center is turned off
  - Partner ads settings, Visit My Ad Center, Ads you can control, Get started,
    Cancel
Everything is disabled, as expected after turning off the Google personalization service

2. Ads

Ads privacy

Ad topics: 0

App-suggested ads: 0

Ad measurement: - Allow ad measurement: set to Off - Reset measurement data: reset

Reset advertising ID: confirmed, reset

Delete advertising ID: deleted

Usage & diagnostics: disabled

3. Remote management

After I tapped it, it said "Installing applications" After a few minutes, at the second login, I got in and it showed me a Smart Tutor screen. I went to Apps, found it and uninstalled it. It would have allowed the phone to be managed remotely by customer support, I don't know which one.

Facebook

Settings & privacy

Settings, Apps and websites, turned off "Apps, websites and games"

Business integrations

Activity log, Apps and websites off Facebook, Posts from apps and websites: it was empty. Your apps: it was empty.

SlightlyLeftPad 4 hours ago | parent

Really? They can’t seem to pick up a conversation happening directly in front of them.

motbus3 4 hours ago | parent

Yes. But depending who is doing the work they can just see what Bluetooth devices are around each hour of the day too... It sucks that everything we have seems to be usable against us

jack_pp 18 minutes ago | parent

and if you go completely dark whoever is interested can just install a camera near your apartment and get that info anyway. you just can't hide in a city if you are not actively trying to hide, never could either even before tech, it was just more expensive.

cowlevel 5 hours ago | parent

They already knew this from your cell phone not being in airplane mode.

lencastre 5 hours ago | parent

there is always the risk of the isolated Faraday caged house

ThePumpkinGod 5 hours ago | parent

If I ever try to hide (which is probably impossible at this time and age), I will probably just break my phone not like I can use it anyways every single act in it sends data to too many places to count.

guax 4 hours ago | parent

I assume the problem is still tracing and association. So long as there is no direct link between you and the device, there is no saying if that is you or not. So grabbing a used phone via cash transaction from someone and only turning it on and using outside of your usual locations could be enough to have it being "anonymous". Then, using a vpn or other proxy that hides your network can make you very hard to find, so long as you don't associate with your real identity in any substantial form.

The danger with these technologies is not when they allow to precise track you once your general vicinity is known, that was always possible by putting some goons after you. General mass surveillance that is constantly tagged is the problem, flock, PRISM and the other stuffs.

ClikeX 3 hours ago | parent

There was a TV show in the Netherlands, called Hunted I believe. Contestants had to go on the run and avoid getting caught by the hunting team without doing anything illegal. Or staying to long in a single place, so no camping in the middle of a park (which would technically be illegal anyway).

Long story short, barely anyone got anywhere. Because simply doing an ATM transaction to get the cash already triggered the signal where they were. Not to mention the amount of government owned cameras. As well as being in proximity of anyone still online.

Complete anonymity is virtually impossible, depending on the country.

alt227 1 hour ago | parent

The problem with that show is it is all simulated. They have a camera crew following them round so they cant exactly hide properly.

The show is set up so that if the contestants do anything on a given list (like access ATMs, pay for something with a known card, walking past cctv cameras etc) then the camera crew would notify the hunters. Thats how they got that intel so that they wouldnt need to use actual methods.

I dont think you can use that show as an actual example of somebody on the run. Its so far away from reality and set up to be interesting to the viewer, its just not realistic at all.

ClikeX 11 minutes ago | parent

My point is that there are a gazillion contact points in any modern environment where you lose anonymity. Not that they can track you in real time like that.

The amount of camera's in and around shopping areas is staggering. And the requirement to have a smartphone on hand is increasing every day, at least in the Netherlands.

gruez 4 hours ago | parent

Can't they already do that by snooping on ARP traffic on your home LAN? Failing that, if they can get whatever shitty wifi chipset they're using to enter promiscuous mode, they can also sniff all STAs that are in the vicinity, and with some ML they can probably figure out which MAC belongs to your phone.

ClikeX 3 hours ago | parent

Bad actors, and any WiFi capable hardware in your house. There's an official spec for it[1], and some routers already have the option built in. I remember seeing papers about this over 10 years ago, someone at MIT did it for a paper.

Philips Hue also has it built in to their newer lights, where they measure the Zigbee signals. They call it MotionAware[2]. Basically anything with an antenna and a bit of compute is able to do this now.

[1] IEEE 802.11bf-2025 [2] https://www.philips-hue.com/en-hk/support/article/motionawar...

jaapz 2 hours ago | parent

Even philips hue documentation is now vibed

ClikeX 6 minutes ago | parent

It's probably just AI translated. The original docs are Dutch.

reaperducer 1 hour ago | parent

There's an official spec for it[1], and some routers already have the option built in.

~~Comcast~~ Xfinity actually advertises it on the radio as a feature.

st_goliath 3 hours ago | parent

> So, a bad actor can now know when I'm at my house or not.

A bad actor who wants to act on that information can just wait near your house on a workday morning and watch you leave, likely not to return for the better part of the day. No techno-voodoo required.

alt227 3 hours ago | parent

Or they could just knock on your door and see if you answer.

gbxyz 6 hours ago | parent

See also: Van Eck Phreaking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking

mrmlz 3 hours ago | parent

As made popular in Cryptonomicon!

fzeindl 5 hours ago | parent

Amazing book about similar topics: “Silence on the wire” by Michal Zalewski

https://www.amazon.de/Silence-Wire-Passive-Reconnaissance-In...

6c696e7578 2 hours ago | parent

Anything in my price range?

fzeindl 39 minutes ago | parent

What is your price range? You could check your local library for borrowing it.

walrus01 5 hours ago | parent

see also, presence detection of humans via wifi signals: https://arxiv.org/html/2308.06773v2

swerner 5 hours ago | parent

As anyone observed who had a TV with just basic analog terrestrial antennas, before cable and satellite dishes - it does make a difference to the signal, when and where you stand and countless pieces of physical comedy in TV shows incorporated that.

reddalo 3 hours ago | parent

As soon as I've read your comment, I've thought about this Mr. Bean's sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9-vDow2d0

pmontra 3 hours ago | parent

And reflections on other buildings (which usually cannot be compensated for,) wind bending antennas, etc.

taneq 45 minutes ago | parent

Ah, the old ‘stand in a funny pose so the family can watch the show’. Such a classic. :P

numlock86 5 hours ago | parent

Wait for people to learn about that you can listen in virtually anywhere through fiber-optic cables, as sound waves are enough to redirect the light in the cable to a measurable degree by "bending" the cable itself. Special devices to filter these variances out and transform them back to audio signals are a thing. It's only per line though, as any repeating device will just output a new cleaned up signal again.

Oh well, there have always been ways to snoop on someone like that. Back in the day it was CRTs emitting measurable waves through the neighborhood, with some papers even going as far as restoring the displayed image through a wall. Nowadays it's fiber and WiFi, and those seem to be much easier to work with even. Plus everyone carries a device that is tracked by their mobile provider's cell network. shrug

kurthr 4 hours ago | parent

Just toss a doppler laser interferometer on a window, mirror, etc. At least with fiber-optics you need physical access. Single mode (I think that's most of FTTH) is pretty insensitive to vibration and hard to localize so you'd really have to install something.

andai 3 hours ago | parent

Ah, but of course. How could I forget about my trusty pocket doppler laser interferometer!

JdeBP 3 hours ago | parent

Yours is not built in to your watch? You should go and have words with Q.

ben_w 3 hours ago | parent

This is a "high school project funded with pocket money" level of DIY, with €25 of parts.

aa-jv 2 hours ago | parent

Microwave beam-forming says what?

taneq 48 minutes ago | parent

I didn’t hear it say that. I guess I’m not the target. :P

taneq 49 minutes ago | parent

Included in the next version of Flipper. /s

taneq 50 minutes ago | parent

In this context, is line of sight with the ability to emit and receive laser radiation at the target not ‘physical access’?

ClikeX 3 hours ago | parent

You can also listen for audio simply by measuring any vibrating surface with a laser. Which goes all the way back to the late 40s, used by the USSR. |

Fun fact, it was invented by Leon Theremin. The inventor of the Theremin.

ForHackernews 2 hours ago | parent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) is a fun read for people who haven't seen it before

euroderf 3 hours ago | parent

So when AI takes over the world, it will have a convenient tap into every living space of every hoomin. Lovely.

w4der 3 hours ago | parent

Fiber optic interrogators are (for now) expensive and bulky, so I don't think commercial modems are capable of that (yet).

1e1a 5 hours ago | parent

See these for a very low cost (<$10) method for observing WiFi and some LTE spectra:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49922674

https://espargos.net/espsdr/

darkwater 5 hours ago | parent

Now, about the wifi part, why isn't there an Home Assistant extension that detects already room presence magically exploiting all of this??

timthorn 4 hours ago | parent

There is with Zigbee: https://github.com/orgs/home-assistant/discussions/960

darkwater 3 hours ago | parent

But this relies on Hue. I would like something at HA level directly, aka a zero-effort solution if you already run a zigbee swarm either directly controlled by HA or via zigbee2mqtt

armcat 3 hours ago | parent

Several years back we actually made use of the principle mentioned in this post, to more systematically count traffic on the roads [1]. In our case we used LTE/4G radio, and we could even estimate the direction of travel, as well as the type of traffic (pedestrian, small vehicles, large vehicles). It was more accurate than Google Maps because it was independent of the moving phone, i.e. it was "sensing the obstacles in the environment".

[1] "Traffic Flow Estimation using LTE Radio Frequency Counters and Machine Learning", https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.09143

protocolture 2 hours ago | parent

Thats nothing, my old tv could predict incoming phone calls.

alt227 1 hour ago | parent

When I was young I could tell when the neighbours turned on their tv by the UHF whine.