Yet another Hacker News

A tiny Pacific country rolls out universal basic income

44 points motionlessveloc 2 hours ago 17 comments

motionlessveloc 2 hours ago | parent

This doesn't sound terribly different from eg Alaska's Permanent Fund payouts? The main difference seems to be that PF payments fluctuate a lot, while the Marshalls plan seems to be a fixed, predictable sum.

_doctor_love 1 hour ago | parent

It is very similar but works differently. Also the two programs do not have the same intent.

The US has a Compact of Free Assocation (COFA) with the Marshall Islands, which provides a lot of the funds for this. Versus Alaska where it is paid for by natural resource extraction. All that said, it is the government of the Marshall Islands making the decision to pay it out this way.

From the US point of view, this is a good program because it incentivizes people from the Marshall Islands to stay put rather than emigrate to the US mainland (which they have a right to do under the COFA).

derektank 8 minutes ago | parent

>From the US point of view, this is a good program because it incentivizes people from the Marshall Islands to stay put rather than emigrate to the US mainland

Why is this a good thing? Naively, as an American citizen, I would rather have someone emigrate and work in America where they can provide additional labor to the mainland economy

rambambram 1 hour ago | parent

Can we please put back the meaning of words?

no-name-here 1 hour ago | parent

Which words? From the reports I've seen, it's available to all citizens, and it's one of the 2 kinds of UBI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income

Edit: LoganDark4 replied but I got an error when submitting my reply to them, so including here:

> Even the smallest crappiest studios in most areas exceed $800/mo. Then you also have utilities and food before you even approach comfortable living.

Multiple percent of the population in the small Pacific country we're discussing lives on <$3/day (<$90/mo).

> Universal basic income means something you can live on.… UBI means you don't need external support to sustain comfortable living. That's its entire purpose.

From the very first paragraph of the link you replied to: "If the level is sufficient to meet a person's basic needs (i.e., at or above the poverty line), it is considered a full basic income; if it is less than that amount, it is called a partial basic income."

caminante 54 minutes ago | parent

*Partial UBI with only $800/year

Details aren't as sexy as the headline would lead one to believe.

no-name-here 14 minutes ago | parent

Multiple percent of the population lives on less than $3/day.

This UBI is 37% of the poverty line, and the % living in poverty has dropped from 7.2% to 1.3%. https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/0997063042125181...

gus_massa 50 minutes ago | parent

This page https://wage.is/marshall-islands/ claims the average is US$168000 per year and the median US$9600 per year. [My guess is that the poverty line is close to US$5000 per year, probably higher.] This program adds US$800 per year. So it's a "universal partial basic income" instead of a "universal total basic income".

In all the discussion I remember, "universal basic income" == "universal total basic income" but perhaps I was not paying too much attention.

no-name-here 12 minutes ago | parent

Multiple % of the population live on <$3/day.

This payment is 37% of the poverty line. Poverty has been reduced from 7.2% to 1.3%. https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/0997063042125181...

rambambram 45 minutes ago | parent

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/universa...

no-name-here 11 minutes ago | parent

Your link is to the term universal. From the reporting, this payment goes to all citizens including children. Perhaps you could more clearly state your objection?

backhold 19 minutes ago | parent

While what's good for a tiny island might not be good for the gander, I like the attached cost analysis of a negative income tax. The author points out that this might be a more practical way to deliver a basic income, and more amenable to both sides of the argument.

And at more or less no greater cost than the welfare system at time of writing. I wonder how the numbers would shake out now?

https://martin-farley.medium.com/how-a-negative-income-tax-c...

WithinReason 10 minutes ago | parent

negative income tax and universal basic income are mathematically equivalent.