13 points jslakro 2 hours ago 26 comments

fbrchps 1 hour ago | parent

> But traditional technologies lack cognitive processes: they do not perceive, evaluate, or solve problems

Neither do LLMs, which are "billions of dice" -word-guessers, still to this day.

shadowgovt 44 minutes ago | parent

True, but things like GPT-5.6 are more than just LLMs.

However, it's good to keep perspective here. We don't know enough about what consciousness or reason (inside our own brains) really are to make claims that LLMs do those things.

olivierestsage 1 hour ago | parent

To me, it feels like the opposite: a useful tool that's been wrongly marketed as something more. LLMs are very helpful in many different contexts. Sure, you could also use them to discuss your intimate issues or make your decisions for you, but you could also do that with Eliza back in the day if you wanted to. Wasn't a good idea then, isn't a good idea now.

4m1rk 1 hour ago | parent

AI is not just LLM. DNN though has proven to be the right path toward SI.

anventuri 1 hour ago | parent

"has proven" ? Any pointer to understand better?

shadowgovt 46 minutes ago | parent

Thos acronyms could use definition. Insufficient context to disambiguate.

graovic 1 hour ago | parent

Hmm.. agent.as_tool() looks like a tool for me

ranger_danger 1 hour ago | parent

I try not to put much stock in black-and-white opinions because I think the answer is rarely that simple.

bigcat12345678 1 hour ago | parent

Humans are probably the least tool liking in all known universe. Yet, humans were used like tools everywhere every time in the society.

AI is a tool for sure.

bananaflag 1 hour ago | parent

Yeah, this "we have to adapt like we always did" feels very thought-terminating. I mean, you don't adapt to a nuclear bomb falling over your city.

shadowgovt 44 minutes ago | parent

We built an awful lot of bomb shelters if that's not true, but I think I catch your meaning.

weakfish 1 hour ago | parent

sigh No, it doesn't have consciousness, nor have human thoughts, etc. We (humans) are just _really_ good at anthromorphizing and pattern-matching. We do it to our animals, assigning human feelings to their expressions, and so of course we'll do it to the tool that outputs in our language.

gilrain 1 hour ago | parent

You should catch up with modern cognition research rather than this 20th-Century, anthropocentric nonsense.

weakfish 1 hour ago | parent

Can you provide links, sources, anything? I genuinely would engage with it, but it's unhelpful to just essentially say "go read the thing I've read and stop being dumb"

win311fwg 52 minutes ago | parent

> it doesn't have consciousness

As measured, how?

Aside from your groundbreaking research that we're learning about for the first time, the science has held that we have no idea what is and isn't conscious, or if consciousness is even a thing. Humans tend to like to think they are, but it is philosophically accepted that it could be an illusion. So it is astounding that you aren't gushing with details. Maybe you don't understand the magnitude of your findings?

weakfish 42 minutes ago | parent

I would engage with this if it wasn't written so rudely. I have thoughts on the subject and would like to discuss them in good-faith, but this is not it.

My original comment may have been a bit sarcastic, I admit, but this comment seems to serve no purpose other than to jab and try to dunk on me, so I won't engage.

orblivion 24 minutes ago | parent

> rudely

You started this with "sigh"

willio58 1 hour ago | parent

> But beyond that, AI can change, improve itself, and even alter part of its nature. Tools don't do that.

I mean what do you call it when a package adds new functionality in v1.1 vs 1.0?

Improving itself is hard to see. I don’t as a developer using opus 5.5 see it improving itself. It’s great, and I expect the next opus to be better, but while I have this version it seems pretty much the same.

Waterluvian 1 hour ago | parent

The Internet is also just a series of tubes... but there's emergent properties that come out of any sufficiently complex system.

I think the framing provided in this creative writing is quite disagreeable. But I can understand why it feels that way. The important thing is to comprehend that it's not actually that way. The Internet is just a series of tubes... even though sometimes I refer to the Internet as an entity that can do some really funny stuff...

spottedmarley 1 hour ago | parent

AI doesn't exist. LLMs do, and those are tools.

guybedo 1 hour ago | parent

AI is a tool the same way humans are tools for other humans.

A corporation is basically human tools organized in hierarchical layers, each layer is human tools for the layer above to carry some tasks.

simonw 1 hour ago | parent

The "AI is a tool/is not a tool" pieces all rest very much on their definition of the word "tool".

This one rests on the definition of "herramienta". I don't have nearly good enough Spanish to understand if there are additional subtleties relating to how that word is used in that language.

(That said, it's pretty great that we can have a link to a Spanish thread from an English language forum and the language barrier is almost invisible.)

mglvsky 1 hour ago | parent

This would be true when software factories succeed. For now, AI needs initial input from a human

shadowgovt 51 minutes ago | parent

An expert system is a tool, and we've had expert systems in computing for ages now.

One could, perhaps, make the case that the inherent randomness in the LLM algorithm makes it a fundamentally different thing than an expert system.

... but we've had Monte Carlo analysis as a tool for ages too.

I'm not sure we promote the thing to "not a tool" by gluing a Monte Carlo algorithm onto an expert system.

To take a big step back from the LLM question and look at a similar space that perhaps sheds light on the question...

A lot of chip design these days involves a step where the desired circuit is described in a goals-and-constraints-oriented language and then fed to a layout algoirthm that is semi-deterministic and attempts to solve the optimization function based on specified goals (like fabrication cost, size, or power consumption).

The output of this process is a chip you can fab. The process is random (it's an important industry-standard step to capture the input seed, because if the chip ends up in something audited and the auditing firm needs to know how the chip was made, it's not good enough to shrug and say "Enh, we rolled some dice," they need the layout schema deterministically reproducible too).

I don't, generally, think anyone considers the fact we use these in the hardware space to be anything but using yet another tool. It's a tool that searches a solutions domain much faster than a human could doing something not too dissimilar from what a human would do (with perhaps a little human intuition thrown on the top to avoid obviously-pessimistic branches of exploration, but you can bake those shortcuts into the tool also).

Nocerg 45 minutes ago | parent

Why does its capacity for autonomous action mean it isn't a tool, rather than that 'tool' is an insufficient description of its capacities and risks?

orblivion 25 minutes ago | parent

"AI is just a tool" seems like a thought terminating cliche.