Yet another Hacker News

Canadians are running out of time to oppose Bill C-22

137 points hn_acker 20 hours ago 49 comments

FLeXMurphy 1 hour ago | parent

Love this. Looking forward to a private keys being `4` because the govt needs it that way.

bluefirebrand 1 hour ago | parent

I'm Canadian, and this matters a lot to me, but people don't care

The culture here is so mired in political apathy that it feels futile to even bother. People just do not care at all

I'm not a huge activist but I have been involved in a number of things when they matter a lot to me over the past twenty years or so, starting in college, but not a single one of them has ever gone my way

I'm unemployed now and worried I'm going to have an incredibly hard time ever finding work in software again, and AI is taking over, and here I am. Defeated again

I don't have it in me to fight this stuff anymore. The machine has won against me at least

allthetime 1 hour ago | parent

Sounds like you’re just as apathetic as those you despise.

Watching our provinces fall one by one to corrupt/kleptocratic “conservative” governments has certainly done a number on me, but it’s only made me more vocal and more involved in local advocacy.

All that apathy out there is an opportunity to awaken care and turn the tide.

Get off your ass and help.

bigyabai 1 hour ago | parent

Well, I'm American, and I watched my peers lose this fight 10+ years ago.

I was in school when the Snowden leaks came around, and asked dozens of students and teachers what they thought about it. The majority of them had no idea what had happened, some even outright rejecting it as a foreign smear campaign. A handful of people showed interest, but lost interest when there was no connection to aliens or the Bermuda triangle. My freedom-loving cohort was too preoccupied with YouTube, Twitter and Instagram for it to matter.

Fast forward to today, you're probably running USA-designed spyware on whatever computer and phone you import from America. Canada already belongs to FIVE EYES, your mobile handset market is almost entirely captured by pushover US corporations that backdoor Push Notifications and rename lakes apropos of nothing.

No matter what happens with this bill, the threat of surveillance will loom long over Canadians. Political motivation is important, but trusting the United States is an albatross on the neck.

joshdavham 1 hour ago | parent

I’m also Canadian and I don’t share your pessimism at all.

The people I know are not apathetic and I’m sorry that things don’t go your way politically, but that’s life. For example, the recent Vancouver election didn’t go my way - big whoop.

shovas 14 minutes ago | parent

But the Vancouver elections are a microcosm of left-leaning Canadians across the country. There's no hope for the foreseeable future while boomer power remains.

shovas 17 minutes ago | parent

I'm Canadian, too. I think most Canadians are just not informed. Most Canadians still get their news from state funded media which of course spin for the state because 'follow the money'.

petcat 1 hour ago | parent

> also expand the sharing of Canadians’ personal data with foreign law enforcement, including the United States. Canada has been negotiating a cross-border data-sharing agreement with the U.S. that would allow American police to get information about Canadian internet users without any Canadian court oversight.

This is actually even more amazing to me that with all the talk of data sovereignty, the EU and Canada are still negotiating reciprocal Cloud Act treaties that will give the US government warrantless access to basically all digital services and communications. The UK and Australia have already codified these agreements with the US.

Trump's loud mouth brought these issues to the forefront, but really it seems like everyone is just waiting for it to blow over when he's gone in 2 years and then it's back to usual.

sandworm101 1 hour ago | parent

>> everyone is just waiting for it to blow over when he's gone in 2 years and then it's back to usual.

Trump is the symptom, not the disease. It will not go back to normal. US politics has changed. The US people have changed. There won't be a Trump 2.0 but there will be other equally horrible leaders. Maybe not the next president, but likely the one after that. Canada must adapt to the new realty rather than deny and wait.

bvan 1 hour ago | parent

Exactly. If it’s happened once, it will happen again.

sellmesoap 1 hour ago | parent

I wonder why the Canadian government would share citizens data with the u.s. while all this 51st state talk and terrif stuff is going on, does Canada get access to Americans data in return?

petcat 1 hour ago | parent

> does Canada get access to Americans data in return?

It probably is reciprocal, but in reality Canadian companies sell very little (if any) digital services to Americans. There isn't much they can even access. It's why the arrangement is so lopsided.

sellmesoap 35 minutes ago | parent

I think reciprocity would be in violation of the 4th amendment, and why don't Canadians have protection in the same way!

petcat 28 minutes ago | parent

> why don't Canadians have protection in the same way

Well, they might have their own Fourth Amendment if they chose to fight against the British instead of with them during the American revolution!

History aside, now they have what they have.

motohagiography 1 hour ago | parent

This govts to attitude to the dignity of its citizens is demoralizing. I have more hope in the outcome of a US annexation than I do for any significant positive policy direction. it’s done. Bureaucracy has triumphed and there’s nothing to save.

shovas 15 minutes ago | parent

Same here. We've disqualified our own sovereignty.

joshdavham 1 hour ago | parent

Be the change you want to see in the world! If you disagree with this bill don’t sit idle!

betaby 1 hour ago | parent

I too receive auto-replies from my MP.

kennywinker 1 hour ago | parent

I have an MP i can reliably count on to vote against bullshit like this, which means i have nobody who is accountable to me to write emails to.

betaby 51 minutes ago | parent

Liberal MPs are going to vote as party says without exceptions. Aslos this https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/liberal-star-candidate-...

slopinthebag 58 minutes ago | parent

there is literally nothing people can do. the party in charge has a majority government and a media biased enough to sell this bill as a positive thing.

the only thing that could make a difference is if apple, whatsapp, and instagram all blocked canadians from using those services. the liberal party and the media would still find a way to blame trump for it, and the pm's popularity would increase.

shovas 11 minutes ago | parent

Remember that media bias comes from being state funded media. Of course they're going to massage the narrative towards the party giving them funding.

cute_boi 32 minutes ago | parent

This is a coordination problem, so people can't do anything.

matteoraso 1 hour ago | parent

It's very rare for the senate to kill a bill. I would say that we alreadt ran out of time.

wmchen 43 minutes ago | parent

You're not wrong, the unelected senate generally chooses to defer to the elected lower chamber and this has only really been broken for extremely contentious legislation (think abortion and climate change).

Generally the Canadian Senate will propose amendments to the bill after its study, but the lower chamber has no obligation to agree, so it has some sway in that consultative sense. And the Senate has been more active in proposing amendments to legislation after independent senators became a thing.

At this point, I think the soft landing that privacy advocates can hope for are amendments that curtail the worst aspects of this legislation.

FLeXMurphy 1 hour ago | parent

I remember a few people who opposed this bill, including a Canadian professor of law/lawyer Michael <something>, who wanted to oppose this. What happened to that? HN had blog posts about it I believe.

slopinthebag 1 hour ago | parent

michael geist. yes pretty much everybody knowledgeable about this bill, regardless of political stripes are against this bill. except for the party in power.

the media spends almost all of their time attacking the opposition leader instead of the current pm (who has a majority gov), so people are unfortunately quite under informed on c22 and other things the gov is doing.

creaturemachine 1 hour ago | parent

CPC should take down the punching bag if they're tired of it being used.

slopinthebag 56 minutes ago | parent

really insightful comment.

shovas 12 minutes ago | parent

How do you guys know about Michael Geist? I know about him from X. I've come to assume that if you're not on X, you probably aren't informed on any of the negative aspects of what the Liberals are doing because state funded media is state funded and is following the money. But I'd be happy to know people can be informed on Facebook or wherever.

slopinthebag 1 hour ago | parent

the largest voting block in canada (seniors) aren't really capable of understanding this issue let alone prioritizing it. in fact, for liberal voters the only thing they care about is opposing and antagonizing trump, or at least the appearance of doing so. keeping housing unaffordable is a distant second priority.

so bills like this will continue to go through since the liberals have a majority and the PMs popularity counterintuitively goes up as things go from bad to worse. im finding it hard to have any motivation to oppose this bill since resistance seems to be futile.

the dark liberal decade gets longer and darker in canada.

drop_star 1 hour ago | parent

goofy take IMO

shovas 16 minutes ago | parent

This is Canada, he's spot on. It's insane here.

krunck 10 minutes ago | parent

Does "liberal" mean the same thing it does in the USA?

EmbarrassedHelp 1 hour ago | parent

If the bill isn't dramatically changed or killed, all the major messaging services along with tons of other services will end up blocking Canada.

cute_boi 33 minutes ago | parent

Or some will bend their knees and things will continue as normal.

sandworm101 13 minutes ago | parent

There are lots of laws in Canada that are not enforced. Ap owners/controllers will wait to see how the government wants to handle this. If the government starts making demands then they will pull out, but I doubt the bill itself will trigger anything immediate.

loufe 1 hour ago | parent

I'm not sure what more to do then to annoy my friends and family and speak with my MP (done), who had already voted against it. Canada's political system seems healthy compared to the USA, but it doesn't feel healthy objectively.

slopinthebag 56 minutes ago | parent

it's not healthy, even compared to the states. it's just not crazy like the states.

shovas 11 minutes ago | parent

US politics might be "crazy" but definitely healthier than the managed decline we're seeing in Canada.

ActionHank 44 minutes ago | parent

So let's assume it goes forward, what are my options to maintain privacy?

john_strinlai 29 minutes ago | parent

any serious answer to that question would need more context, and will have to wait until after the bill passes to see how companies/services react.

logicchains 26 minutes ago | parent

https://bitchat.free/ is one, if you can convince any of your friends to use it.

shovas 21 minutes ago | parent

Unfortunately, our state funded media have no interest in pushing back on that because they're state funded by the state pushing the bill. And, in my experience, if you're not on X, you just don't know about these things. That's most Canadians. We're doomed until boomer power fades.

tamimio 7 minutes ago | parent

Fun fact: the government is already talking to companies who have customers to prep the infrastructure needed to handover any data requested, as in, they are almost guaranteed it will pass.