264 points aaronbrethorst 2 hours ago 151 comments
glimshe 1 hour ago | parent
eterm 1 hour ago | parent
vkou 1 hour ago | parent
The last impressive things they shipped were Mass Effect and DA:O. That was 19 and 17 years ago.
Everything since has been trend-chasing and running on creative fumes.
ndesaulniers 1 hour ago | parent
r0ckarong 1 hour ago | parent
2OEH8eoCRo0 1 hour ago | parent
baal80spam 1 hour ago | parent
Anyway - good riddance.
rjh29 1 hour ago | parent
serf 1 hour ago | parent
[0]: https://www.autismparentingmagazine.com/autism-and-sarcasm/
izacus 46 minutes ago | parent
barbazoo 1 hour ago | parent
Never thought that Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund would shutdown the company that created so many childhood memories.
bluefirebrand 1 hour ago | parent
I'm honestly surprised they lasted this long. Sad to see them go but only because they should have been way better
everdrive 1 hour ago | parent
HelloMcFly 1 hour ago | parent
mardef 1 hour ago | parent
BioWare, in the last 12 years, has released: Mass Effect: Andromeda, Dragon Age: Veilguard, and Anthem.
It's still painful to see the studio go away, but I sadly agree.
Agentlien 59 minutes ago | parent
However, The Veilguard to me was amazing. I loved that game and it's my favorite Dragon Age.
mosura 1 hour ago | parent
Even in the good times their ability to create (and hide) black holes was prodigious.
jbmchuck 1 hour ago | parent
Crusoe123 1 hour ago | parent
ex-aws-dude 42 minutes ago | parent
They were purchased decades ago
WithinReason 1 hour ago | parent
Sad, even though BioWare was dead already.
seattle_spring 1 hour ago | parent
kobalsky 1 hour ago | parent
Blizzard seemed to defy the stereotype but it died a long time ago, it's just a husk.
The contrast with japanese game studios is impressive.
loosescrews 1 hour ago | parent
ErneX 1 hour ago | parent
esseph 1 hour ago | parent
(In no certain order)
- Baldur's Gate
- Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
- Neverwinter Nights
- Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
- Star Wars: The Old Republic
- Jade Empire
- Mass Effect
- Mass Effect 2
- Mass Effect 3
- MDK2
- Dragon Age Origins
- Dragon Age II
- Dragon Age: Inquisition
Insanity 1 hour ago | parent
There's other studios that similar to Blizzard didn't get bought out early and published multiple hit games, like Insomniac Games.
bigstrat2003 58 minutes ago | parent
Henchman21 31 minutes ago | parent
goolz 26 minutes ago | parent
anthonypasq 23 minutes ago | parent
anthonypasq 23 minutes ago | parent
the__alchemist 1 hour ago | parent
flumpcakes 1 hour ago | parent
mcmcmc 59 minutes ago | parent
Lots of non EU games fall short, including several mentioned in this thread, e.g. Anthem
antiframe 28 minutes ago | parent
Warhorse Studios is Czech; Slavs are not all alike.
santoshalper 57 minutes ago | parent
izacus 47 minutes ago | parent
The list is rather long.
the__alchemist 48 minutes ago | parent
- Talos Principle 2
- Expedition 33
- KCD2
- Anything by Arcane
- Anything by CDPR
- 007 Last light / Hitman
- Blue Prince
This is subject to taste, but the games I've been personally enjoying the most are almost all European. US games are comparatively mediocre. I don't have an explanation; only this observation. I was startled when noticing it.Most recently, I'm loving Order of the Sinking Star, and that's from a US team. There's hope!
kridsdale1 36 minutes ago | parent
flumpcakes 34 minutes ago | parent
I was going to mention this game as a counter point but then realised that if I am doing that it's kind of the exception that proves the rule.
I do wonder why this is, perhaps there's more money in the US to build bigger games with bigger teams and you just get the 'too many cooks in the kitchen' syndrome.
I must admit most AAA games from the US over the last decade have been underwhelming for me.
AlexandrB 26 minutes ago | parent
It's ironic because Hollywood is not doing too well at the moment.
rossvor 48 minutes ago | parent
4dregress 40 minutes ago | parent
Henchman21 33 minutes ago | parent
charm137 15 minutes ago | parent
I cannot point to the reasons as to why. Many of these teams are global teams - so a lot of the same problems apply: marketing costs/timelines, release-time crunch etc. The one difference I can point to is that perhaps executive payouts are not overly dependent on total shareholder returns.
Mr_Eri_Atlov 1 hour ago | parent
RIP to an amazing creative group
make3 1 hour ago | parent
Mr_Eri_Atlov 1 hour ago | parent
ninininino 1 hour ago | parent
To me at least, somehow KOTOR and KOTOR 2 made me care more about the characters and story than BG3.
BG3 has better systems and combat and gear and such, but for many the worldbuilding, story, quests and such of KOTOR have yet to be beaten. Bastia Shan, Carth Onasi, Visas Marr, HK47.
The story of Revan and its twists.
Perhaps its just nostalgia and many KOTOR fans having been at an earlier age when they played those Bioware games compared to DOS 2 and BG3 though. Maybe people who were teenagers playing Larian games feel as attached to the characters and story as those of us who were teens in KOTOR's heyday did.
serf 1 hour ago | parent
kotor was one of the first interactive media franchises to showcase that era in the Star Wars universe, and it was an era that's radically different than anything in the movies.
bg3 is a typical DnD setting + sex + lovecraftian elements and flayers sitting in for beholders to spice it up; and they were only there because during dev-time lovecraft was a huge gaming trend.
don't get me wrong; I love both of them, but the BG3 story was the one that ended up feeling like -- for me -- something that would have been a modpack for Neverwinter Nights.
panzagl 1 hour ago | parent
I guess you have the edition of Deities and Demigods where they were cut...
shoobiedoo 24 minutes ago | parent
nozzlegear 1 hour ago | parent
Henchman21 28 minutes ago | parent
akimbostrawman 58 minutes ago | parent
i can assure you that the original amazing group has been gone for over a decade. modern bioware has only been good at dragging someone else's legacy through the mud.
walrus01 1 hour ago | parent
koziserek 1 hour ago | parent
JohnMakin 1 hour ago | parent
After that I knew they were done. ME3 was the last good game they released, imo.
esseph 1 hour ago | parent
By the time of the next Dragon Age game, EA was deep in making decisions.
unsnap_biceps 1 hour ago | parent
ishouldbework 1 hour ago | parent
nfw2 1 hour ago | parent
xen0 1 hour ago | parent
I'd place it around the start of ME2.
rl3 50 minutes ago | parent
In contrast, ME1's ending may have well been a master class in game cinematography and writing.
jasomill 22 minutes ago | parent
xen0 16 minutes ago | parent
My point was that ME3 was doomed because ME2 utterly failed at bridging the gap between the strong start of an epic that was ME1 and what should be the conclusion that was to be ME3.
In fact 'fail' may be generous. I don't think it even 'tried'.
iugtmkbdfil834 27 minutes ago | parent
autoexec 35 minutes ago | parent
bigstrat2003 59 minutes ago | parent
gambiting 55 minutes ago | parent
taurath 39 minutes ago | parent
Veilguard was very poorly marketed to appeal to a neoliberal crowd as if the characters and identity was the primary draw rather than the core story themes (Wizards v Templars, Societal Order vs Individual Freedom, the capacity for evil and corruption of either side) and the world which was fascinating. I love me some inclusion and well crafted characters, but the focus on it to the exclusion of all else as a queer person it gave me the same ick as a corporate float at a pride parade.
cjk 36 minutes ago | parent
LinXitoW 6 minutes ago | parent
Veilguard was my favority gameplay wise, but the writing... well you know.
humanlion87 1 hour ago | parent
AdmiralAsshat 1 hour ago | parent
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/7cxz4a/eas_graveyar...
john_strinlai 1 hour ago | parent
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcf.preview.re...
autoexec 29 minutes ago | parent
https://web.archive.org/web/20230610092047/https://old.reddi...
science4sail 1 hour ago | parent
I think that a lot of Bioware fans just had nostalgia though - their recent work doesn't seem to have been as well received as their franchise initiator games.
ReptileMan 1 hour ago | parent
aresant 1 hour ago | parent
There are a handful of notables still there but the majority of the teams that made the classic Baldur’s Gate, KOTOR, and Mass Effect disappeared a long time ago through natural turnover and a couple of brutal rounds of layoffs.
The silver lining is that the talent didn't vanish and we have teams like Archetype working on Exodus, Stoic with The Banner Saga, or offshoots like Yellow Brick and Beamdog.
ramesh31 1 hour ago | parent
This is generally the case in the games industry. Great dev teams seem to function more like bands than companies. For however you feel about the latest iterations, the first Call of Duty was an absolute revelation to the FPS genre that we never would have gotten without the EA firing of the MoH team.
da_chicken 1 hour ago | parent
The analogy would be more easier to swallow if it wasn't always used as a mask for enshittification.
nemomarx 58 minutes ago | parent
Hamuko 1 hour ago | parent
aresant 47 minutes ago | parent
1 - 2017 they cut from 500 -> ~350
2 - 2023 went from 350 -> 200 that included a bunch of very senior people including the OG writer of Baldur's gate Lukas Kristjanson
3 - Early '24 cut down to 100 skeleton crew as the writing on the wall for DA Veilguard sales materialized (sold about 1.5m vs 3m projected)
so-gala-massey 13 minutes ago | parent
AlexandrB 7 minutes ago | parent
Night_Thastus 1 hour ago | parent
slg 1 hour ago | parent
flumpcakes 1 hour ago | parent
slg 27 minutes ago | parent
pinevale 1 hour ago | parent
They basically used to make amazing games in the 2000s and never quite lived up to that reputation again. Whether the acquisition by EA was the cause or the symptom of the decline, I don't know.
santoshalper 59 minutes ago | parent
ToucanLoucan 48 minutes ago | parent
Anthem frankly killed them. A live service looter shooter which were already out of vogue by the time it was released. Obviously made by marketing entirely, no soul whatsoever. They never recovered from it.
krabizzwainch 33 minutes ago | parent
swiftcoder 27 minutes ago | parent
This squares with Joker being a fan-favourite character in the main trilogy
LaurensBER 19 minutes ago | parent
This is a great summary of the entire issue with the game.
I really tried to like it but it didn't inspire any enthusiasm. I didn't really care for the plot, the stakes seemed so low compared to the previous title and none of the races/planets really scratched that explore itch.
pixelpoet 48 minutes ago | parent
slg 32 minutes ago | parent
[1] - https://blog.bioware.com/2022/07/15/bioware-developer-story-...
Razengan 19 minutes ago | parent
taurath 46 minutes ago | parent
AAA games in general have been having massive problems with over-management, where you have hundreds of stakeholders for a game. The second there is proven money in a franchise, massive structures of managers start to meddle in everything, demand day and date release promises, and get involved in everything from creative direction to engineering to resourcing. You end up with thousands of people in the credits for games made by a team of 100 artists and programmers.
The same thing has been happening to big budget movies and prestige TV shows, to the point that everything becomes this sort of neoliberal corporate soup that reflects the culture of the company. Game studios become victims of their own success. In the same way enterprise software becomes consultant feature slop soup, media becomes focus grouped appeals-to-no-one ultra high production value shovelware.
Creative studios stop producing art or meaningful experiences and start producing content.
AlexandrB 30 minutes ago | parent
AtNightWeCode 1 hour ago | parent
shevy-java 1 hour ago | parent
I guess in a way it was unavoidable. Still sad though.
I miss many great companies of the 1990s.
akimbostrawman 1 hour ago | parent
TheRealPomax 58 minutes ago | parent
Lerc 58 minutes ago | parent
It's like the cluttered overgrown forest that periodicly burns down to create space for new life.
EA is like a landowner who does no maintenance but loves to buy things that have been maintained because they look so good.
mandevil 58 minutes ago | parent
https://theonion.com/anthem-developers-assure-players-whiteb...
'“We know the thousands of customers who pre-ordered Anthem have some concerns, but we are confident this collection of words scrawled on a conference room board will be a revolutionary third-person shooter experience when released at the end of the week,” said director Jonathan Warner, who shared a progress update with players by sending out a screenshot of an email chain that ended with an agreement to call the game Anthem.'
https://theonion.com/people-criticizing-anthem-don-t-underst...
"Stop complaining and attacking studios just because a game isn’t everything you want. Developers put too much stock in making games enjoyable and playable as it is. Planning to make something as profitable as Anthem was supposed to be and is a huge undertaking, so at least give them credit for trying. BioWare had 18 months to build a game that would sell millions of copies based on the goodwill they built up, and they hit it out of the park. You may not understand Q4 projections, but they do. Anthem is a game that exists and is funding [EA] CEO bonuses, and by that measure, it’s been a huge success."
AmazingEveryDay 56 minutes ago | parent
random_cat_8745 54 minutes ago | parent
philipallstar 48 minutes ago | parent
wildpeaks 42 minutes ago | parent
aghuang 41 minutes ago | parent
Such as shame.
sys32768 41 minutes ago | parent
Speaking of Andromeda, I still rewatch videogamedunkey's hilarious review of it titled Mess Effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDjci1ODoBs
underlipton 35 minutes ago | parent
rubayeet 33 minutes ago | parent
I wish I had never seen the new ME teaser / trailer [1] out 5 years ago.
ChrisArchitect 30 minutes ago | parent
jasomill 30 minutes ago | parent
swiftcoder 20 minutes ago | parent
Apart from whatever the hell happened with Bungie's many changes of ownership, I can't think of many beloved franchises that have been successfully transitioned to new ownership...
wolvoleo 22 minutes ago | parent
gfosco 17 minutes ago | parent
hbn 7 minutes ago | parent
He hosted a friend and I end of last year and gave us a tour of their offices in Vancouver. Hits close to home.
I had never played any Bioware games but after that trip it inspired me to finally get around to playing through the Dragon Age series, and I marathoned them all over the next few months. It wasn't hard to see the very steep decline in quality. Which is unfortunate cause they definitely had a lot of talent but were being sabotaged internally from executives jerking them around with trend chasing (for as bad as Veilguard was, it's surprising they cobbled something together that's at least somewhat cohesive when it was going back and forth between a single player and multiplayer game), as well as people being put in charge of major creative decisions that clearly had not earned that role.