YHK - yet another hacker news clone

I feel ya.

Most of my friends from high school and college are dead from random cancers, or drugs, or both.

I used to love skimming the new preprints on arXiv in the morning but now the signal is buried LLM drivel.

The one hobby I have that is kinda LLM-proof for now is speedrunning. Tool-assisted speedruns have always had their own categories for decades, and even if the LLMs or their descendants are used for routing or glitch hunting there’s still an element of human execution.

Why do you imagine yourself you be in competition with others while doing hobbies? Do you not find pleasure in the doing?

> All my fun hobby projects are just jokes

I exercise/lift weights, and you should too. My reps/effort/weight/PRs are a joke. I'm ~50% percentile on strengthlevel.com despite really fucking trying for ~6yrs now.

Many people are better than me at the EXACT SAME THING that I'm trying, at my bodyweight/age/sex. It doesn't discourage me. There is always room to improve. I track every workout, go to RPE 8-9, and try to do progressive overload. Seeing the numbers go up helps. I know it won't continue into infinity, especially as the decades go on... but yknow, I'm building a mentality here, not just a body. And when the weights go down, I'll be in the correct mental space for it.

I _loathe_ every. single. minute. of weightlifting. I'd rather be doing ANYTHING else. But I do it anyway. I think it teaches me things about life.

The only true goal is to grow and be better than yesterday. Effort is the reward.

I feel like so many devs forget:

1. How utterly dogshit the vast majority of code is.

2. How utterly dogshit some of the most important or famous products and services are under the hood.

So what if LLMs can do something better? Our entire field and industry has been built on 'good enough'. God knows how many programming 'masterpieces' are on Github with 0 stars and 0 users.

I am more excited about programming by hand now more than ever. While I do not know what the future has in store for us in terms of careers, I still think I will always program by hand for fun just because I enjoy the feel of the flow-state/getting lost in something.

might be a good chance to sit with yourself and understand what you want to do in this life, we often think there is only one path in life and seek success as defined by society. Most of us neglect ourselves way too much, thinking we're seeking the right thing. It's a problem if we can only find joy in life in trivial things like work or even hobbies. It means we might be disconnected from ourselves. Also If you feel you need professional help you absolutely should seek it. Healing in this toxic society does take a lot of time and professional help can be really good sometimes.

57 here

Yeah ....all frail and falling apart here.

Seriously,look at the age at which people run for president. We got a guy whose been living his best life by stealing from the US public in his late 70s. 50 is the new 30 after all

bruv that's some serious cope!

Less than 10% of 55 year old men have ever had cancer in their life. And many of them were diagnosed before 35. So if you don't already have cancer, your odds are much less than 10% that you'll have cancer by 55.

And if you're wrinkled and frail at 55 years old then that's your own fault. Put on some sunscreen and go for a bike ride.

Go to the gym. I'm 60 and in the best shape and strongest I've ever been in my life.

You're talking about FIRE and at the same time griping. Everyone has their own disappointment to deal with in life, but you might consider yourself privileged if you're able to retire at all, let alone retire early in your 40s.

Our brains are constantly bombarded with ever growing information and noise. With mindfulness, deliberate separation from most of the daily noise we can all zero in our own purposes in life. This hard, doesn’t happen overnight but with little steps and a lot of patience we will find that eventual purpose. And you find it hang on to it. I found reading the New Testament brings me instant peace when my brain is in turmoil. Hang in there strong with spiritual closeness, removing noise and avoiding those negative thoughts.

> I began drinking too much, but luckily I was able to get out of that habit.

Alcohol is incredibly dangerous after 40, particularly if you've got a history as a heavy drinker. I've had to cut back to virtually nothing as it's guaranteed to trigger anxiety and depressive episodes.

Almost all the premature deaths in my circle, including suicides, have been alcohol-linked.

Obviously, YMMV, everyone's different, but if anyone reading this thread is over 40, struggling, and still drinking regularly, taking a break can really help.

AI hasn't made a dent in my enjoyment of my hobbies and tech (the opposite, now I have more toys to play with than ever), but politics? Oh man, politics becoming the new religion has absolutely ruined pretty much everything for me.

I don't believe in politics. For me left and right are all *the same*. Just a bunch of megalomaniacs wanting to hog power for themselves. This extremely hot take has made people call me more names and costed me more relationships than if I went out and started screaming slurs in a crowded street. Because I am a "fence sitter" or whatever.

And I just can't handle it anymore, I just went full recluse. I don't go into social media anymore, I don't talk to anyone at a personal level anymore. Outside of some github issues and some comments here, I don't touch socials anymore. I am just overwhelmed by the level of vitriol and hate the new internet is based on.

I’ve lost a lot of my spark in the past 6 years as well. So much has happened that it’s impossible to pinpoint one root cause, it’s all contributing.

Don’t know if you’re soliciting advice, but there are a few things that keep me feeling the way I did before: physical exercise, and live music. Unfortunately I find less time as the week goes by to dedicate to those things, but I at least know they’re there.

Therapeutic writing that out loud, in a way.

I'm 41. My youngest brother blew his brains out in July. My other brother has cut himself twice. I quit my job as an EMT because I'm in no mood to transport SI patients. I needed a job on short notice to keep making my mortgage payments, so now I'm breaking my body 50-60 hrs/wk pouring concrete with the Amish. And it doesn't even cover the bills.

I can't afford health insurance, let alone health care. 0 sick days, 0 vacation time, $0 leisure spending. Credit card debt ticks up each month. Retirement savings is a pipe dream. How could I conscionably attempt a family under these conditions? I'd never have time to be a part of it and would be plagued by the guilt of not being able to provide.

But hey, I'm told to feel lucky I managed to lock in a 30-year mortgage at 5.99%: If I'm diligent paying on it until I've got a foot in the grave, selling the house might pay for end-of-life care!

How were able to get out of the drinking habit? I have been drinking heavily on the days I work from home. Drinking really calms me down. I then watch Netflix just so I don’t think.

This is the way.

Yes because when you are struggling to take care of yourself, piling on vet bills and food and more responsibility, and less social time will really help.

I'm working on this actually. I had a dog for 12 years and she really kept me going. Saved me. But she died a couple years ago, literally the day after one of my parents, and it's been tough. But I'm really thinking about getting another dog; I really want to get another dog.

How did previous generations working similar number of hours manage to have much richer social lives?

Became? Do you not consider yourself to have always been so?

(Out of curiosity, if you don't mind the question).

I had a friend who transitioned and it was such a delight to witness the transformion. Before they were the most flaky of friends, always flitting from on thing to the next, not stable, couldn't hold a job or hobby together for very long. Then they finally transitioned and my god the difference was night and say. They're stable now, they're reliable they're just fun to be around. They've finished a second degree and have held the same job for eight years now.

It's crazy how much not being at home in their body disrupted every part of their life

Serious congratulations. I understand untreated gender dysphoria is a huge predictor of suicide.

Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure from my understanding of human history and primate evolution that "long-term sexual/romantic partner" is, in fact, one of the basics.

> What I do know is that I wish he could have known how many people would miss him.

Personally, that's not comforting. The real issue is the lack of reciprocal effort and understanding.

Generally, people miss how others make them feel and the benefit of knowing them. I rarely see people miss or grieve the individual.

I've been through a 6 month long unemployment. Got let go from a company (along with the majority of the dev team) which picked up AI like a shiny object thinking it could do everything.

Then I got hired to a company which have been pushing AI 100% for like a year, not at the expense of headcount, but responsibly as the N+1th productivity increasing tool, like what it is.

It's a really nice environment where keeping and cultivating great talent is not just one of the primary marketing slogans on the hiring page, but it actually feels like it while on the job.

My talent is nowhere near yours, so don't lose hope, keep applying.

I think most white-collar people have similar feelings. I certainly am, and many dev-friends and coworkers have confided such to me.

My software skills are now irrelevant. I've accepted that the omniscience robot is a better engineer than me. No clue what I'm going to do next, but I have to figure it out fast once my job disappears.

I wanted a family, but I'm relieved that I don't have one now. I can't imagine the stress and pressure of that with how weird everything is now. I'm nearing the end of the timeline for that anyway, being in my late 30s. Probably a blessing in disguise.

I have a some good hobbies that keeps me on my toes (physically, mentally) and a full social and family life fortunately. That's what fills my cup. I'm not stoked about tech anymore anyway.

While I applaud Australia's initiatives, I am becoming more and more convinced that a lot of people are already in (or heading towards) situations that the mental healthcare field can do very little, if anything, to improve.

I read your 'Leaving Tech' blog and it made me sad because it reflects a lot of what I'm feeling. Luckily I'm still employed, though it feels fairly tenuous at the moment

"This feels to me like driving the car without holding onto the wheel."

And this is why the whole thing will implode eventually. But there will be a period of pain until then.

Sounds like your semi-rural location isn't helping. FWIW I have recruiters in Sydney in my network who are hitting me up on a semi-weekly basis because they are dry. I think the situation macro-economically is just really bad. Based on the stock market situation this week, I'd guess it's going to get a whole lot worse. First, be thankful you have a clean, safe place to live with a healthy family and just do stuff. So many people don't have those boxes checked and would kill for your position. Maybe try another money generating exhausting activity like woodwork or something. Worst case you do it for a bit and it's not for you. Generally, trades in rural areas in Australia are in constant demand. I knew a guy who used to work for flying doctors who got in to construction management and is happy as larry and making bank, so it does happen that transitioning in from non-tradie areas can be a winning move.

I’ve been a software developer for 20 years this year.

I quit my job in 2024 and moved country to be with someone I fell in love with.

Last time I’d interviewed it was 2020 - yeah, I had my pick of roles. This time after 5 applications a day every day for two months plus Leetcode and System Design practice round the clock I landed a dozen interviews and 2x offers.

I never thought I’d have to send 300+ job applications to get a job but my wife whilst sympathetic opened her job applications folder which had some 100+ applications in her field (manager in tourism sector) before she received a job offer.

It’s tough, software devs have never faced that level of friction before but it’s present in other industries.

A quote from Churchill which I carry with me is ‘if you’re going through hell, keep going’.

I don't want to be dismissive, so don't take this the wrong way.

Perhaps relying on skills as a developer was the problem? Society and the job market told you your skills were invaluable, but what did you actually do with them? What did you develop that was worthwhile? I don't know, but you should ask yourself that.

Much of the demand for developers was driven by a financial market that prized your skills, and many people bought into it. We are seeing now that such value was illusory.

How many new apps do we really need? How many new advertising algorithms are actually beneficial to society? How many of the ycombinator projects amount to more than a way to enrich autistic kids at the expense of everyone else?

You need to cast a wider net. There are a million jobs out there, but the problem is too many in the knowledge economy consider those jobs to be beneath them. Those in my peer and family circle who work blue collar jobs are much more content than those of us in the knowledge economy. Their expectations are such that they find satisfaction in their work, without warped or distorted expectations placed on them by their peers or themselves.

We feel too old to learn the new rules of the game in time to play well, but not old enough to be able to abstain from playing.

Well said.

Well said! 5 years ago I could have a pretty solid picture of what my career would look like through retirement.

Today, unclear what that would look like as well as unclear if the career will even exist that long.

One sunny spot I have is that life is very long. I think I have 1.5 careers left in me, and a full pivot is alright. I've been talking with older folks, and loads of people have historically done giant pivots at midlife.

maybe some just don't want to live that long. does everyone need to live as long as possible? you live your youth, and maybe that is enough for some.

if you start to hurt every day, get diagnosed with age-related disease, your cognition starts to deteriorate, etc, you might just decide "hey, i lived enough. i don't want to go through years of feeling like this."

I defined success for myself quite a few years ago: I want to leave the world better than I found it. No high aspirations, no figure. Just better than it was.

Some of that is political advocacy. Some of that is open source code that should exist. Some of that is helping a neighbor. I don't need to hit a certain bar, I just need to know that in a given interaction or situation, I am trying to make things... at least a little better.

That also scales well to differing life decisions. The video game I'm playing, can I get people to play a little nicer with each other and have more fun? Workplaces are full of dumb stuff, success is making it at least a little better. Turns out I have kids now. Wasn't the plan, but now my obligation is to make sure my involvement in their lives is positive. Not a specific bar I have to achieve, but you know, someday I hope someone appreciates how I chose to live my life.

Is that not the epitome of the classic mid life crisis?

You hit a point in your life, reflect back on where you'd thought you'd be when you were in your early 20s, and think.. shit.. what I do all of this for?

This isn't even a flippant comment (especially given the subject matter); being at this age and thinking "I imagined it would all be easy by now" does hit home.

Eh, I don't think today is really all that different from the last 100 years. We as software engineers may feel different as it's (maybe) our turn in the barrel.

Well said.

Part of working through history from (only) 100 years ago is an impression of how quickly societies were changing then. This isn't the first time we've had the table cleared, and it hopefully won't be the last.

Which isn't to downplay the upheaval that people are in - it is definitely traumatic. But we've been through disruption before. Hopefully we'll make fewer costly mistakes this time...

On the mark.

I have however run out of fucks and am ignorantly coasting and making optimal survival decisions only. Fuck the business. Fuck the career. Highly recommended.

Yup, I tell my partner all the time. I just want the new era to be here already. I hate this waiting. I'm very annoyingly optimistic and think we're headed for post-scarcity.

> expectations to be successful

+1. Also maybe it's an age where responsibilities start to peak. More senior positions in the workplace, having children, marriage, etc.

I've had a few stressful periods lately where it felt or feels like I can't load any more on to my plate and I don't even have that many responsibilities - no kids either, just an accumulation of small and background things needing dealt with. I think I do understand people who do commit suicide to an extent - if you add the above normal stresses of life to some highly stressful life events like a breakup or divorce and throw kids etc into the mix - and hey why not a pile of work related stress too - I can absolutely see how people get pushed to the edge.

Modern society has not been arranged in a way that sets people up for success. Staring at device screens for more hours year on year likely doesn't help.

> we are living through a period of time where success is very hard to define, much less attain.

Do you think this has changed from say 10 or 20 years ago? To me, I don't get the sense that there has been shift in the social definition of success. Maybe I'm missing something?

This makes a lot of sense to me. I used to have plans for the future, I had the next couple of years mapped out. Then I tried AI and my plans simply dissolved. I have no idea what's going to happen now.

Feels like all the effort I put into coming this far was invalidated overnight. The writing is on the wall, and now I have about five years to get rich at any cost until it's all over. Now I'm firing from the hip in all directions, trying to hit something, anything.

I used to enjoy programming as a hobby, writing articles. It's all so meaningless now. What's the point?

I am not sure if the success per se is the issue, but today things are definitely harder for many people compared to, say, 50 years ago for people of the same age. The available options for you, at age 55, are less with regards to success in general. And then it depends a lot on one's life too; for instance, are they single or not, do they have kids or not, and so forth.

> It's a psychologically very difficult time.

That's true, though it depends on how one handles that. But I think it is also clear that there are fewer options available when you are somewhat old already. People at age, say 20 to 25, may not feel a problem when they are gamers. At age 55, it is much harder to reason as to why you may wish to invest many hours per day into games; it just is not that productive, for most people (excluding e. g. playing to have fun, but that still does not answer the question of producitivity; I exclude professional gamers here, as they can often make a living just from donations, twitch etc.. but most people are not like that. Some of these gamers soon hit the age range 50+ by the way, I do watch a few of them every now and then.)

Personally I think it has to do it's harder than ever to meet and find a partner.

no rules/syllabus is an opportunity to be creative. No one has it figured out. Everyone is winging it. If you lock in, you will be the expert!

Never kill yourself, life is awesome after overcoming challenges

I'm sure some sociologists have written this already, but it seems to me that the people who commit suicide aren't those who are miserable and have few options. It's those who have lots and lots of options, but all options lead to unacceptably bad outcomes.

Microcredit in the third world is somewhat notorious for causing a rise in suicide rates. That fits the pattern: there's a huge number of things you can do to get money to pay back the loan, but if it gets out of hand, none of them get you remotely enough money to keep from sinking deeper into debt. Access to capital gives you many options - but it also makes it your fault when you didn't find the option which would lead you out of miserable poverty (which may not even exist!)

What any psychologist will probably tell you (at least, what all of them told me) is that clinical depression makes you bad at seeing options. Could it be that's in some sense a defense mechanism, trying to stop you from putting the really bad options on the table?

Sorry but it has very little to do with expectations. As a middle aged man you have very little opportunity to start a new career (regardless if there is even any remaining soon). In an absolutely objective way, physically and socially.

I disagree with a lot of these social analysis texts because I think they misunderstand a fundamental premise. There is no pressure from society today, on the contrary. You had that when we were living in villages where everyone knew each other and it is what city dwellers escaped from.

But this never had been reevaluated. Modern societies are detached, nobody really cares what you do, you don't know your neighbours, you have no "third place" or common place any more.

So norms and rules are far less pronounced than in any other time in human history, far less so.

If you go out without pants in a big city, very few people would care. In better situated parts, you can expect that the police will probably pick you up. In less fortunate environments, you would just be pantless.

This is the opposite of expectations and pressures. I think many just aren't really part of a society or environment any more.

For some that is a great loss while others strive in this state as well. For many having some kind of responsibility is a very important part of their lives, but modern societies offer little here. We optimise for as little attachment as possible to stay flexible and dynamic. That of course can be a pressure as well, but not in the sense it is often suggested.

But summarised I think the problem is fundamentally misunderstood: Society doesn't put pressure on anyone, society simply stopped caring about you. I think this is what most societal analysts get completely wrong.

true but the pieces we value are also being pried from our hands.

I also don't think it compares to the industrial revolution, these are primarily sociological conditions - these suicidality figures predate the current AI implications.

No. All that would apply to women too. Men are abused in the West, oh for a few decades now. Women are taking all the college slots, taking most of the new job openings, having more sex and offspring, have more friends, are favored by the legal system, celebrated in the media rather than mocked and derided. Women have a lot of pent up rage after hundreds of years of their own abuse, now that the tables have turned, they are holding the whip hand now as it were…. It’s not anomie.

we are also flooded with the highly curated exceptionalism of others.

That is a very interested lens to view this issue through, I hadn't considered that! I'm not quite that age, though I think my age can be discerned from my post history lol, but even outside of being generally impacted by this, the biggest impact I've felt has been how others around me are reacting. Half a dozen INCREDIBLE engineers that I used to work with left explicitly because they don't like how AI is changing the industry.

I don't know, it feels to me, in my limited scope of experience and view, that things are getting a lot worse, very quickly, and it frightens the hell out of me.

There are numerous NDE reports that say people who commit suicide go through extreme agony after they die. It’s never an option. Tell this to anyone who thinks about this mistake and it may help him. Although he should do his own part of searching and listening to such stories to understand how big of a mistake this is.

> A new board game gets set up, new pieces doled out, we learn to play the new game

Reminds me of this idea about sport / competition from the parenting book, The Gardener and the Carpenter by Alison Gopnik. She says that children must be encouraged to explore, not exploit ("play games"), without any end goal in mind. This lets them figure out the world around them and how they can affect it.

As "exploitation" (competition) is a means to use specific knowledge (performance) to achieve goals (progress), it will tend to have winners & losers. "Exploration", otoh, is choosing among umpteen pathways to growth and learning. Of course, middle-aged folks can seldom afford to not be playing games, but perhaps in times of change, they need to be exploring like children again.

Also see this post on Ask HN: Has anyone here turned around their life in their 40s? about Pyscho-Cybernetics & achieving goals: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34053801

Wow just a short reading of this wikipedia is fascinating. It reminds me of a thought I had years ago about what is lost with the introduction of abstracted currency (i.e. dollars). I assume this is an established concept, but when you barter with someone, besides the transaction, you learn about what that person needs. With abstracted currency, this information doesn't get transferred.

Anyway, seemed relevant to the wikipedia.

I'm an absolute doofus in the physical realm. No hand eye coordination of any kind. No common sense. No social skills or ability to read and understand humans.

In any other era I would have been a useless drain on society and yet I happened by an incredible stroke of luck to be born at a time when the few skills I do have perfectly aligned with a career niche. It's been a good few decades. Now I just go back to being a useless nobody but at least I have my memories and my investments.

That's great advice but still you can be replaced by younger people that also left software for a hands-on job.

I have noticed a real lack of qualified car mechanics. I mean people that can actually fix something in a car instead of just swapping pieces. Maybe that will be my next career. Don't know where to start, though.

The generation supporting the boomers?

The childhood lead exposure generation (not being flippant; it may also be why we engaged in the worst crime spree in history as teens and young adults).

I heard that before when I just started dating. I would say don't worry about the outcome (especially pertaining to one person - you know close to nothing about them early on anyway), just try to connect with people. In my case, it would've helped calm my nerves, which were a hindrance. I've been with my partner for 8 years. A given outcome is never preordained and you don't need everyone to like you, just the one that you click with if you don't let rejection discourage you.

being funny and charismatic are something it is possible to practice, same as lifting weights. From what you say, sounds like a high leverage thing to look into

Just do other things you like and don't worry about women. Relationships bring heartache and grief a good percentatge of the time anyway. Being engaged in things you like doing will bring you into contact with others and friendships or more may develop. But don't do them with that expectation.

If you don't know what to do, try to get involved with helping others in some way. It can be rewarding and give you a broader perspective on life.

>> Dating is a kick in the butt

DON'T DO ONLINE DATING. Online dating has wrecked mating except for the most attractive 5%. Online dating is mostly a looks competition as first step. And you are saying you don't have the looks to win that game, so you need to play a different type of mating game.

Go to meetups instead via meetup.com and also look for local group activities happening on EventBrite - don't make finding a partner the focus or even the objective - go to a ton of meetups doing the things you love doing.

People form relationships doing common interests and having shared experiences. Have shared experiences with people and take finding a partner off the agenda - just enjoy the company of others. You never know what might happen but don't go looking for it.

I can tell you this for sure - many women are looking for a partner of character - someone kind who actually wishes to engage in relationship - a genuine person - and if time is taken to form relationship well in advance of the "will you be my girlfriend" pressure, then how you look is very often just not an issue. Have you noticed how when you get to know someone you see their character as much as their outward appearance? You might need to let people learn who you are gently and over time.

As for being charismatic or funny, as Oscar Wilde said: Be yourself - everyone else is taken.

A helpful thought for me was that literally everyone could reject you, except one person, and that's all you need is just that one person. Also along with that principle, maybe 99% of people actually aren't a good match for me, so if I mostly don't "click" with other people, that's totally fine — I don't know if I would want to be with 99% of possible people myself even if they were interested in me. It's just about finding the right kind of person that's similar to you. People with unique attributes may find someone else with the same unique attributes, or the other person may possess unique attributes that might somehow be a good fit for your unique attributes.

I am funny and at least somewhat charismatic but I'm gay and gay dating is simply broken. Both online and physical places focus on quick, cheap, sexual encounters. Meeting dudes outside of gay spaces results in max 5% chance that dude is also gay, which is a pathetic thing to be working with. I'm really not convinced that this life is worth living.

The most terrifying realization is that I've already spent pretty much half of my life yearning for love and not getting it. Even if I magically get married soon, it'll feel like a consolation prize.

How are you extremely skinny? Do you have a digestive issue or something?

I struggled with weight gain for many years due to crippling IBS but I found some relief while bulking from a certain probiotic. (Got lucky - dozens of things I tried including fodmap, etc. never worked. That said, the probiotic only helps - not solves... and doesn't solve my absorption issues)

Surgery, steroids, and a serious bulk are in order if you're serious.

  - Dumbell and smith machine squats
  - 10-30 degree incline bench
  - Dumbell lunges
  - Overhead press with dumbells
  - Planks
  - Situps: Straight, bent, and normal legs
  - Dead hangs
  - Pullups with 3 grips
  - Leg lifts while hanging
  - Lat raises, forward and bent over
  - Behind-the-back cable extensions
  - Tricip cable pulldowns
  - SKull crushers
  - Dumbell curls, one hand at a time

Just visit/move to Philippines/China or (South) East Asia in general, if you are 40 (and white) you will have absolutely zero problems to find someone who will make you happy, though I would be realistic about age difference, which will either make you walking ATM or real partner.

> (Think Oppenheimer or Bin Laden)

Lol you went from 0 to 100% really quickly there.

"not into dogs".

That's OK, most of the single woman I know don't care if you like pets or not. As for how you look that's not a huge problem - again most of those same women have expectations in the looks department that are best described as average. And you're gainfully employed! This is better and better.

The only thing I can suggest is to put yourself in a position to meet more women because the more actual real life women you meet the better the chance of finding one that feels that spark.

  So far as I know (and maybe you can come up with more) there are two solid ways of meeting women.  One is to hang out where they are.  This is tricky because the closer this gets to a cattle call (think going out to a bar ) the more artificial and tricky this gets.  Dating apps are like that but in spades.  

  Option two is those woman who didn't "feel the spark".  Here me out.

  Here's what you say.  "This clearly isn't working out for you.  But rather then this being a total loss, want to get to get together with some friends of mine and just hang out as friends?"  or even, "Hey, you have friends - maybe there's no spark here but how about if I hang out with your friends?".

  See, if you have female friends it's like another person helping you find someone to be not single with.  Woman are a gregarious lot and they tend to both know a lot of people and to know a lot of women.  I trust that it's not hard to see how this can work.

   Eh, that's how it worked for me but your millage may vary.

> and am not into dogs

That's fine. Women are more likely to be into cats anyways.

I think part of the problem in that instance, might be "success" being necessary but not sufficient for "surviving and thriving"; and unfortunately sometimes that isn't explained along the way to even people who become conventionally successful (but, perhaps we can try to improve an awareness of the issue going forward for future gens)

Thanks for this comment, because I think it's probably the only comment I've read where the hypothesis at least matches what is seen in the graph in the article, as it's really only men ages 45-64 who have seen a recent rise. Rates for younger men 25-44 have held steady for about the past 20 years and are significantly down since the mid 90s and early 00s. And yes, this is an all time high for men 45-64, but that's following a large dip for this age group around 95-2005, and the current rate is only slightly above where it was in 1980. And rates are significantly down compared to rates 30 years ago for men older than 65.

>I think the reason is being the sandwiched generation.

I agree, while most indicators should point to our lives being good overall, Millennials truly got screwed by their Boomer parent antics.

I feel like in a lot of important things, we suddenly went from being too young to being too old. Now we have responsibilities, heavier than our previous generation, but mostly lacked the support to build a stable foundation that can help taking care of those things.

It won't be as bad for GenZ/Alpha because Millenial parents are much more empathetic and supportive of their kids. Also, Boomers take care of their grandkids much more than their own kids, and also the Great Wealth Transfer will skip most Milennials and land directly over GenZ/Alpha.

I am overall optimistic on the outcome of AI, I think Alpha gen will live in a time of abundance and great opportunities. So, yeah, we were the shit gen between two great eras.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wealth_Transfer

If my kids feel they owe me or are responsible for my elder years then I've failed as a parent. My children didn't choose to be born.

That's why we invented social safety nets.

Now parenting expectations may be sky high. That doesn't mean we have to be consumed by them.

I would imagine it feels like a huge responsibility, and also immensely fulfilling.

I couldn't imagine being brave enough for it, props to you for doing this!

Nice job. There's a group here in Australia who pass around crazy shirts with 'this is a conversation starter' aimed at men's suicide prevention. Neat marketing gimmick, maybe you can partner with them and use it. https://trademutt.com/pages/this-is-a-conversation-starter

Firstly can I give you a big hug for what you're doing.

Do you find that things such as the man-shed groups play an important part? I feel that life can be more isolating these days and where people move about more and life runs at a faster pace there is less time and fewer opportunities to fully relax and just "talk shit" with someone.

For me TV programmes like Mortimer & Whitehouse Gone Fishing are a reminder of how we should be spending some of our time.

This rings true for me - I wish I could go back and tell my younger self not to prevaricate over trivialities. Maybe it's rose colored glasses but those times feel very idyllic otherwise.

I think this rings true for many people, but the mind works in mysterious ways. There are folks who have nothing who are mentally well, and folks who have everything they ever wanted who are severely ill.

It can be scary and hard to approach, but I would think you're not unexceptional or unimportant to your loved ones. Maybe you should talk to your wife about this at some point? It sounds like you're starting on this with date nights too which does seem good.

I hope you can find something that helps you feel like you're not just treading water, though.

I see you, and I feel the same way. You have articulated the dread of the monotonous sisyphean slog of being middle-aged.

You have kids. Got to live on for them.

As I’ve reached middle age I’ve realized that controlling my suffering keeps me grounded.

The suffering will come out no matter what everyday for me personally no matter how comfortable the day is.

For years now I force it out with intention every day. I push to a discomfort for an hour or more a day usually doing some aerobic activity.

When my body starts failing as I get older I’ll need to explore other options but this is where I am now.

Surprisingly my brain has been rewired over the years to look forward to this controlled suffering and counterintuitively it’s made all of life much more enjoyable.

I don't claim to have all the answers, I still feel that way sometimes, but I've mostly escaped it. What really helped was a lot of Dr. K (Healthy Gamer) videos and introspection. I think I can sum up in a few bullet points what really worked for me, although it was actually a years-long process to go through.

1. Recognizing just how many of my goals and beliefs were "unnatural," in the sense that they never really originated from within me. I never in my whole life cared about money or status, but I had internalized the message that I needed to stand out (which I actually hate to do), have some glorious career, etc etc. It was completely useless pressure because I was running as hard as I could in the completely wrong direction. When I actually pay attention to what I enjoy, it's a very short list: laughing with my wife, tackling small but meaningful challenges (I'm a physically awkward guy but I've felt proud learning some basic home repair skills), reading books, beer, and conversation. That's basically it. So now I make time for those things and tune out the noise of what I'm supposed to want.

2. I treat my job as a source of money and a place to potentially form relationships. I also consider it an opportunity to exercise craft and quality, but I recognize that's not the main reason I'm there—it's not why I was hired and it's not (solely) why I took the job. Giving work a smaller (but still meaningful!) place in my life solved a lot of emotional problems.

3. Recognizing that "permanent happiness" is not a very realistic goal for human beings, and it's easy to make yourself miserable trying to be happy. I referenced this in another HN comment, but I really like the book "The Happiness Trap." It essentially helps you stop trying to run so hard from feeling negative emotions, and being ok with having negative experiences and feelings reduces so much stress.

4. The last one was "productivity," which manifested in many insidious ways. The first was turning all of my free time into a resource for self-improvement. I actually enjoyed this earlier in life when I was building a skill that I found interesting, but it became my goal to just get "better," and that was more useless pressure. I also tried to fit in an impossible amount of tasks, and to come up with systems to manage it all. Accepting my own limitations and the fact that there will always be more than it is possible to do really helped take another big category of stress away. "Four Thousand Weeks" is a great book.

All of this is not to say it's easy, or that I'm 100% fine all the time now. I still get depressed, overwhelmed and so on at times. But overall my quality of life is way up, I enjoy my days a lot of the time, I can function, I feel my life moving in a good direction. Mostly it was a journey of subtraction rather than addition. For a long time I didn't realize how many things I could just put down.

You're married with a family. You're quite fortunate. I hope you learn to appreciate that.

I've had this thought many times, though a big part of a cult is like being employed: they let you be in the cult because they can pay you less than what you generate for them.

That sir is a commune not a cult.

There are many, already available to join

I hope more than anything Ukrainians will stay strong and persevere. Perhaps not even for themselves or their country, but just to witness the enemy collapse when it all ends. The mere fact that you are Ukrainian and live in Ukraine invokes a certain level of respect.

It is my one sincere wish in life that the suffering of Ukrainians is not for naught and that the people of Europe support you until victory.

Can you avoid conscription by volunteering your SW engineering talents for the defense sector? That was an option in many 20th-century wars but I don't know if it's relevant these days.

As an American, I'd like to say I'm as horrified by our faithless leadership as you are frightened by the circumstances you're facing, but that just sounds pointlessly shallow. All of Western civilization has a stake in keeping Putin at bay, but only your country is being forced to confront that fact right now. We should feel grateful to Ukraine, and in fact many of us do.

Suffice it to say we aren't all aligned with Musk and Trump, and many of us fervently wish we could do more to help in a meaningful capacity. Trouble is, about a third of our eligible voters have decided to put a single party decisively in charge of all of our branches of government, and the way our system is structured, that leaves the rest of us more or less powerless. That will hopefully change soon, but we'll see. Try to stay strong, and we will try as well.

Whatever I'm about to say may sound hollow, given that I've not been in your shoes.

At my previous (well known tech) company, we had a number of older Romanians who grew up in the Communist era. I became close with one of them. And the stories he told me were just harrowing. They were not at war, but the government simply couldn't provide for the people (other than giving them a good education). The struggle for basic necessities in the 80's became real. He had a wife and a newborn, and the wife was sick, and they couldn't afford any furniture. There was real concern the baby would die because the mother couldn't get even basic rest (no mattress, no bed, sleeping on concrete floor, etc).

The stuff he had to do to ensure she got a bed was crazy.

And then later there were food shortages, etc. Dodging bullets, etc.

But they all somehow persevered and focused on surviving. And then got out of the country as soon as the borders opened up. Eventually, because of their skills, they got great jobs. Very senior and well respected in the company.

But of course, they know people who did lose hope and ultimately committed suicide.

Living in the US, I've encountered lots of former refugees from war zones. People like yourself with skills did well here. For sure they struggled, but eventually they all "made it".

If you have skills, I hope you can last long enough to get there too.

Life is strange. And circumstance even stranger.

I guess a die is rolled somewhere in the universe and we are born—who knew where, who knew when.

And there are many who are even less fortunate than ourselves.

18. same ass of a country (to outsiders, have a look at all the countless debacles concerning corruption to understand why "ass"), except that I have 7 mostly worry-free years left to live and the market for juniors (and thus, me) is closed. if I get drafted, I'm waiting out for an opportunity to shoot my head.

honestly, having a decently paying blue-collar job made me think whether tech is worth it at all, given that I'll lose all the extra benefits (from canteen to proper bomb shelter to gym to commute) and cut my already tight paycheck by 20-25%. for what? for "tech"? where I have to be able to wake up at 3AM when the client's LLM took down their prod, commute to a vulnerable office in Kyiv (and pay for expensive AND equally vulnerable housing there), live under a threat of getting fired because I was "not AI enough" or whatever management wants, or because I don't have gigabit Wi-Fi in the shelter? fuck it, I'll rather be a night-shift loader and idk, learn embedded at home.

the world devolving into proompting has ruined tech for me. prolly I'll get a Cat. C driver's license and spend little what I have remaining of life on the road. if I get lucky, I may eventually reach CE and Euro 95 certs, and that in turn gives me some sort of safety against mobilization.

if the war ends before I become 25, I'll likely end up a stereotypical himbo truck driver. I'm tired of having to perform the smartness.

Can you suggest some things foreigners could do to help the situation in Ukraine?

Jeezus christ.

Lost for words fella, lost for words.

I'm extremely sorry to hear about your life and honestly I don't want to be someone who is provides faux comfort saying everything will be alright. However, I am trying to imagine myself in your shoes and if it ever came to a point where I thought it my life is better off taken out, I would be willing to explore my absolute last options, no matter how miniscule the probability may be. Maybe some variant of high-risk emmigration? Maybe there's a waterway or a boat route or underground passage or forest or something.If I was anyway planning to take my life away without giving these extremely low probability options a chance, might as well go down with a fight. Probably this is naive, but that's only because I have personally never been in such a situation ever to even be able to provide a decent enough advice. I am completely baffled and very sorry you are going through this. You're not the first one to share this experience and probably won't be the last and at times like this it irritates me the feminist organizations all over the world have been dead silent on this matter. Equality only when it benefits them, I guess. I wish you good luck and hopefully get to meet you in person to learn of your amazing story of survival.

Good luck!

If you're going to kill yourself anyway, why not just acquiesce? (To Russia.) This question may be stupid depending on the reader but I'm asking sincerely.

Necessity is the mother of invention and I can only imagine the volume of necessity that your environment demands. If fighting is not an option, can you use your skills to make some lemonade out of a giant bowl of lemons?

Hang in there. This, too, shall pass.

Go and fight back against the people invading your country.

I have non-Ukrainian family members who flew thousands of km over to fight for you right now; you should be 'ahead of them in line' for the cause.

When the war is over you can build things with software; it won't be as fulfilling.

Did you consider voluteering with the Ukraine Army to be a drone pilot? There are many jobs that are far from the zero line, so very little risk of death/injury. Also, from everything that I read, most people cherish the friendships they build during time of war. There are few things that bring together men fighting a common enemy.

I'm curious to learn more, and I'm sorry for your loss. Did he always struggle with relationships? It does seems like people with good relationships (friends, family, lovers, etc.) have a much higher quality of life. Yet, for many men, it is very hard to build and maintain these.

I’d guess it has more to do with making a living, while preserving some dignity.

Keep going man, switch countries, never call it done.

You never know what awaits behind the corner.

Tell us about the train trip.

I'm 40; multiple disabilities due to a rare disease with no cure and neurodivergent. I live in a autocratic third-world country. I had to shutdown my startup for which I had put everything due to my health complications.

I was lost and didn't see any meaning to life, until;

I met this women, with a progressive muscle wasting rare-disease without cure which would eventually make her bed-ridden. Apart from regular work, she works day and night to help people with same disease as hers.

She's always jovial and never seen her complain. Watching her, my problems became minuscule. We fell in love and got married.

I have found my new meaning for life.

P.S. My username is my name, feel free to reach out.

Absolutely not trying to downplay your feelings about this, but was your career really the only thing you were living for? I just find it so hard to relate to. There's so many other activities that bring meaning to life. Try a dance class

What if, in a year, the labor market impact is significant across the board and unemployment is reaching historic heights?

The government should provide the financial support and implement mechanisms for distributing AI-generated wealth more broadly, as planned in the policy proposals Anthropic and OpenAI publish.

I am truly optimistic about the future, and I think it is too early to say that things are not going to get better.

We could very well have a nice life with minimal requirement to work for salary in the near future.

hey

Hey Herman, saw your post on an X post today, i'm from Argentina and wanted to reach out. Never used this forum before but registered to talk to you. I know these are strage times with maybe more uncertainty than has ever been before in human history (i know i may be too dramatic with that statement, humany has had dark times before)

Still, even in these strange days we are living on, I know and i'm certain that all of us have something to live for, call it a purpose, call it a calling, but there is one, for me and there is one for you. We are more than a career, a job, or a talent. I understand it may be hard to see that if we commited a big part of our lives to that career, but as long as we breath, we have the chance to take new decissions.

I truly hope you find that, it make take some time, but it is there. I'll pray for you man, i know God has a purpose for you, and He knows you, and loves you.

Please feel free to reach out to me, you can find me on X at @santiagosas1 or IG at @santiagosas

Take care Herman!

We should talk.

Yes, the job market, decline in socialising, wage stagnation, difficulties starting a family, house prices, greedflation, mental health healthcare provision etc are all individual failures nothing to do with any government.

Hey friend. I’m right there with you. Everything you said resonates with me.

I’m curious, are you fully remote?

Have you tried anything to shake things up?

If you are remote, I recommend taking all the time you save with AI and watching random highly-rated video essays on youtube. :-) It's sounds like I'm kidding, but continually learning and engaging with education and criticism has kept my brain working in ways that make me happy. Getting into a new art form (I've been buying a lot of manga recently) and learning about it is exciting.

I'm pretty happy being invisible these days. I have to balance my business, family, friends, hobbies and interests (I particularly enjoy going to jamband concerts, cooking for my family, and I've really gotten into anime and manga lately). Sometimes I feel a little guilty being invisible because we kinda need to speak up as much as we can these days, but to me, invisibility is an asset that allows me to enjoy life.

thats honestly kind of reassuring as a young person. i'm already invisible, so i don't have anything to fear as i age i suppose.

There is no war in Ba Sing Se

My understanding is that the disparity in "successful" suicides is because women tend to choose methods that can be reversed if you catch them quickly enough (like poison), while men tend to choose violent methods that are over quickly (like self inflicted gunshots).

you just HAVE to make sure you insert women in this discussion.

The thing is, someone that perceives these problems for young people is someone that should stick around and keep doing what they do to fix it.

You are the exact opposite of the people that need to leave early. Stick around and wait for when we come out the other side. I think these kids are going to figure it out, with our help.

> why would they let us keep our jobs or get new ones when we are taking away theirs

dunno, stick around and find out

By the way, 2026 was the 30 year anniversary of his passing. I'm 47 years old and I still think of him almost daily.

That's a nice perspective, but sometimes life is just too much. Sometimes it is the solution

What I really don't like is to hear people who aren't struggling with it, to call someone else's on-going struggle "a temporary problem".

Let them eat cake

> You don't need to create a massive company, be a CEO, have a career people admire, etc..

I don’t give a fuck about any of that. I just wanted to code…

Which can be resumed as "you are a slave and you must live and suffer because if not, the master will be sad"

Perhaps suicide is sometime the only sane answer in an insane world; Perhaps one must actually be sane to commit suicide (which is why there are so few of them, in the end);

> Connected to how life is supposed to be.

amen to that. I took up cheesemaking as a hobby, which has led me to making contacts with farmers. I desperately want to dump everything and go all in on it. Just using my hands every day doing things with objects not made from silicon.

Kinda funny how I used to make fun of the Amish. Now I realize their lifestyle is closer to what I want than ever (barring the religious stuff I mean)

this is not the place to advertise your professional leeching business

Read the room man

Try going to somewhere overseas within the same timezone with lower living expenses. This will be easier than living in a vehicle and more interesting and does not preclude flying back for jobs.

>alimony

Why on earth should you be on the hook for alimony given your circumstances and situation? That makes zero sense.

You have kids. You have to go on for them.

Hi, very similar situation as you. Diagnosed OCD, paranoia and trust issues. I also struggle with feeling loved and see myself as a burden. I also struggle with the idea that I'm only useful to produce taxes and that removing myself from the equation is the only control I have over the situation. I jokingly refer to death as "The Sweet Release". Anyway, not much point to my comment here other than relating to your situation and wanting to thank you for writing it.

Your last sentence is what actually happened to the job market that we don’t want to talk about for some reason

> You are not just a SWE/whatever your job is - you are a problem solver

You should know by now that many of us joined the profession because we like programming and not "problem solving". In 23 years of career I've never cared much about any business problem of the companies I was working for. I never cared about solving customers' problems, or the "impact" of my work, only about the technical beauty of it.

Hi, consider talking to someone. Also, community helps.

i agree with the sentiment. i have felt suicidal on and off pretty much my whole life, but that is a very different feeling from those moments where you experience a drive to immediately end your life.

many years ago, i had similar experiences with seeing objects and feeling pulled to use them to end my life. the magnitude of desire to end my life was quite terrifying at times. its like i was completely okay with doing it because it was the only thing that mattered in the moment.

i had an attempt when i was in elementary school still. it was as if i couldn't stop myself from just hurting myself. it really was me grabbing something next to me and immediately and trying to use it to kill myself.

i wonder what causes that feeling when emotionally distressed. that is when you are most vulnerable to actually committing suicide i feel like, not the long bouts of contemplation. although, that leads to suicide commonly enough as well.

1. fun and creative things do not strictly help everyone facing depression. Anhedonia will likely strip that enjoyment from you. Maybe they help with colloquial depressions, but the article discusses people facing practical, systemic issues that emotional regulation doesn’t solve and if anything likely makes hobbies feel like they being unproductive against a tide rising around them. Many hobbies also have barriers to entry

2. drugs may help. both in the traditional medicinal sense and recreational sense (given psilocybin is showing great results and is not widely available medicinally)

3. By your logic there is no cancer problem till the heart disease problem is solved (which is well above cancer). And widespread suffering of individuals should be ignored and belittled.

Whole IT ethos for decades was about inflicting the rapid change to everyone else without empathy for recognizing the personal costs. "Lol, look how many clueless losers our clunky hated enterprise systems had eliminated, and how much did that save the shareholders. Those guys deserve it for not spending time with latest tech and not seeing what's coming."

Now that we are starting to recognize we had been bootloaders of our demise, how does our own medicine taste to us?

The type of rhetoric from someone who undoubtedly knows nothing and has no experience, is sickeningly embarrassing.

Why do you think Europe is much different in this regards? It's still a dog eat dog world.

Weird nobody’s mentioning “self-made man” by nora vincent, written after experiencing a whole year living as a man. That experience gave her such a depression she ended up taking her own life.

Don’t. You’re 22. Everything can and will change, many times over.

Man... You're 22. You havent even started life yet. People are already living up to 80 years. In 1-2 generations (the 40-50s of today) will be living until 100. Your generation and later will live up to ~120 years and more. Everything will change. Your task is to survive and prosper as much as you can in the meantime.

You’re 22. You don’t have to be a developer, just do something else

I have no idea what you are trying to say

I don't know what can I say to make you feel better but I will pray for you to find a job and have strength to get over this... Sending hugs from Timișoara, Romania.

The alternative is to be brave and hold onto hope.

Sell the house, learn spanish, move to Costa Rica.