215 points vunderba 4 days ago 120 comments
pavel_lishin 4 days ago | parent
(Yes, I saw the "type the numbers" option.)
progforlyfe 4 days ago | parent
_diyar 4 days ago | parent
stronglikedan 3 days ago | parent
scottyah 3 days ago | parent
andai 3 days ago | parent
ShinyLeftPad 3 days ago | parent
233mhz 3 days ago | parent
AnthonBerg 4 days ago | parent
D-Coder 2 days ago | parent
costco 4 days ago | parent
> In a class I taught at Berkeley, I did an experiment where I wrote a simple little program that would let people type either “f” or “d” and would predict which key they were going to push next. It’s actually very easy to write a program that will make the right prediction about 70% of the time. Most people don’t really know how to type randomly. They’ll have too many alternations and so on. There will be all sorts of patterns, so you just have to build some sort of probabilistic model. Even a very crude one will do well. I couldn’t even beat my own program, knowing exactly how it worked. I challenged people to try this and the program was getting between 70% and 80% prediction rates. Then, we found one student that the program predicted exactly 50% of the time. We asked him what his secret was and he responded that he “just used his free will.”
faeyanpiraat 3 days ago | parent
voodooEntity 3 days ago | parent
codechicago277 3 days ago | parent
eimrine 3 days ago | parent
tyre 3 days ago | parent
They leave the room and when they come back immediately know which is which. Specifically because of the over-alternation that yours mentioned. A string of HHHHHH is exactly as likely as HTHTHT, but people don't intuit that.
ShinyLeftPad 3 days ago | parent
this contradicts the comment you're replying to. the premise they are having is that HTHTHT is "less random" than HHHHHH.
dwattttt 3 days ago | parent
ShinyLeftPad 3 days ago | parent
svnt 3 days ago | parent
ShinyLeftPad 3 days ago | parent
svnt 2 days ago | parent
Yes, it is possible that any two 50-sequence patterns are actual rng. But some of them are much more likely, and we can tell.
ShinyLeftPad 2 days ago | parent
Yeah if you define randomness as subjective "stuff humans can't predict" then sure...
dwattttt 2 days ago | parent
Are you saying we should ignore the distribution we observe from humans and predict them as uniform anyway?
ShinyLeftPad 1 day ago | parent
> Samples from an unbiased RNG
you mean a PRNG.
> Are you saying we should ignore the distribution we observe from humans and predict them as uniform anyway?
I'm saying the exercise in general is a little pointless, but that's fine.
cubefox 3 days ago | parent
TeMPOraL 3 days ago | parent
The secret? I distracted myself with the website text and kept pressing the buttons quickly without thinking about it.
kzalesak 3 days ago | parent
Rumudiez 3 days ago | parent
oli5679 3 days ago | parent
This is what I also use for rock, paper scissors (mod 3). You can also use second hand of a watch for random samples, e.g splitting 0-30 vs. 31-60.
rlayton2 3 days ago | parent
My strategy for rock paper scissors is to always go rock, and tell everyone that's my strategy. It's more fun for me seeing how people deal with that information than the win would be. Not very random though
Y_Y 3 days ago | parent
dmurray 3 days ago | parent
However, I think you're correct anyway. The right distribution to look at is something like the orange series in the bottom graph on [0]. Eyeballing it, it does look like 3/5/7/9/11-letter words appear more in aggregate than those of 2/4/6/8/10 (49% Vs 44.5%), and longer words are a rounding error.
[0] https://medium.com/@davidxu90/relative-frequencies-of-words-...
isoprophlex 3 days ago | parent
cubefox 3 days ago | parent
- Scott Aaronson, Quantum Computing Since Democritus.
isoprophlex 3 days ago | parent
shawabawa3 3 days ago | parent
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
I actually built this on a whim after watching that episode of TNG where Data locks everyone out of the Enterprise.
sourweasel 3 days ago | parent
pcthrowaway 3 days ago | parent
(archived now): https://web.archive.org/web/20260625105410/https://brainfrog...
nico 3 days ago | parent
And it inspired me to build a little game based on it. See if AI can read you mind: https://jeffyclassify.com/blog/mind-reader/
alwa 4 days ago | parent
As soon as I noticed it repeating its guess, I had a good long run of adversarially avoiding that number… it’s kind of fun being on the machine side of the slot-machine-type racket!
foxhop 4 days ago | parent
vorticalbox 4 days ago | parent
Did I break it?
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
But we also have a couple of predictors that aren’t markov chains and are based on simpler heuristics. Without seeing your record, I'm guessing that the "numerical avoider" predictor got overweighted and just kept trying to guess the same number.
It should be fixed now!
floorsthelimit 3 days ago | parent
maidaman 3 days ago | parent
kps 3 days ago | parent
akshitgaur2005 3 days ago | parent
nightpool 3 days ago | parent
??? huh?
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
I have a little "mad-lib templatized" set of sentences for reporting on various stats, and that one was supposed to be sort of related to the law of small numbers. For example, shorter runs mean there is a larger probability of getting lopsided distributions (different from pure 11%).
It's supposed to demonstrate that even though you used a single number a disproportionate number of times, it's not necessarily statistically significant since shorter RNG runs can produce the same effects.
steve_adams_86 3 days ago | parent
setInterval(() => {
const num = Math.round(Math.random() * 10);
const ball = document.querySelector(`.typed-pad .ball-${num}`);
if (ball) {
ball.click();
}
}, 1000);
This isn't very interesting, but it scratched an itch I had to see what would happen. The house's record
The house called 18 of your 190 scored numbers: 9%.
Blind guessing would average about 21.1 of them (11%).
Only 1 of the 206 people in a psychology study was more random than you. The house found you extremely hard to read.
I really want to know who was more random than a RNGtyre 3 days ago | parent
If yours happened to contain consecutive digits or common ones (ending in zero, significant numbers like 911 or 42 or 69), that would imply less randomness even if it's actually the result of "real" RNG.
cortesoft 3 days ago | parent
FuckButtons 3 days ago | parent
newsy-combi 3 days ago | parent
Plasmoid2000ad 3 days ago | parent
christoff12 3 days ago | parent
The house called 8 of your 76 scored numbers: 11%.
Blind guessing would average about 8.4 of them (11%).
Only 4 of the 206 people in a psychology study were more random than you. The house found you extremely hard to read.somenameforme 3 days ago | parent
The problem I had was somehow the double-pick algo randomly clicking on at seemingly illogical times. I'm guessing that maybe it's something like if you're not hitting any pattern matcher then the next guess uses a random pattern guesser, because it nailed me multiple times with the doubles even after not having one in 10-20 numbers prior. Though maybe that is itself a pattern that it checks for? It wasn't mentioned in the docs.
Trusteando 3 days ago | parent
kelseyfrog 3 days ago | parent
dozerly 3 days ago | parent
Trusteando 3 days ago | parent
e1ghtSpace 3 days ago | parent
usagisushi 3 days ago | parent
somenameforme 3 days ago | parent
HT => 0
TH => 1
HH => discard
TT => discard
It's pretty surprising at first, but this leads to a perfectly random and balanced distribution of 0s and 1s.
Trusteando 2 days ago | parent
Francute 3 days ago | parent
gaiagraphia 3 days ago | parent
Thanks, btw, actually enjoyed that. :)
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
You only really need to vocalize about ~40 numbers total, but you can actually get a similar level of RNG by "subvocalizing the numbers" before you press them on the keypad.
The main issue is that using the keypad kind of lends itself to just pressing it randomly without really thinking about the actual numbers themselves.
malfist 3 days ago | parent
andai 3 days ago | parent
I always thought I was random, but now it's conclusive!
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
cubefox 3 days ago | parent
christophilus 3 days ago | parent
I started just lagging the guesses of the machine, and it never seemed to catch on.
cromka 3 days ago | parent
tchalla 3 days ago | parent
m463 3 days ago | parent
"Over here we have our random number generator."
https://web.archive.org/web/20230305130159im_/https://assets...
wordpad 3 days ago | parent
savef 3 days ago | parent
exabrial 3 days ago | parent
I tried it. Several 9s later, it figured me out.
ehwa37 3 days ago | parent
Nice!
coolThingsFirst 3 days ago | parent
Not familiar with the sota if someone can chime in.
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
mrkn1 3 days ago | parent
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
Maybe there's a way to shrink it down given I only need to support a limited vocabulary domain...
mrkn1 2 days ago | parent
tibbar 3 days ago | parent
Also, in part because of this project, I got to go from being unemployed in my hometown in the South to working in SF on some pretty neat projects. It's a good memory.
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
Most people will say: 100101 (binary to avoid spoilers)
swiftcoder 3 days ago | parent
yesitcan 3 days ago | parent
riffraff 3 days ago | parent
> Blind guessing would average about 3.0 of them (11%).
Admittedly I gave up before the 30 threshold but I think I did well enough at "beating the house"
Edit: tried again, 14/118, which is 12%. Maybe it's because I'm typing, and that's easier to do that speaking up.
DylanMerigaud 3 days ago | parent
nico 3 days ago | parent
kykat 3 days ago | parent
So I don't know if this result is comparable to the one from the study.
My results were:
The house called 10 of your 87 scored numbers: 11%.
Blind guessing would average about 9.7 of them (11%).
Only 5 of the 206 people in a psychology study were more random than you. The house found you extremely hard to read.
vunderba 3 days ago | parent
But yeah, I agree: I think this does influence the results, since it makes it easier to be more random because you can essentially try to play in an adversarial fashion by adjusting your results according to feedback from the predictor itself.
In the original study, that wasn’t the case. They had a three-by-three grid of numbers and a metronome as well, which meant that they couldn’t slow down or speed up and had to go at a very specific rate with zero feedback until the very end.
Maybe I should add the equivalent of a "Hard" mode which makes the game more faithful to the original study.
frutiger 3 days ago | parent
wren6991 3 days ago | parent
erstwhile_dev 3 days ago | parent
kidel001 3 days ago | parent
Blind guessing would average about 12.9 of them (11%).
Only 2 of the 206 people in a psychology study were more random than you. The house found you extremely hard to read.
williamdclt 3 days ago | parent
It was a very interesting read, and it explained a really "simple" strategy which I found very memorable: build 3 strings representing "all previous moves + one of the 3 possible next moves", run a text compression on them, pick the move that yielded the smallest compressed result. That's the one where the compression algorithm identified the strongest pattern.
I found it really smart, instead of modelling the game it went one step higher in abstraction and works directly at the level of pure pattern recognition.
That keeps coming back to mind when thinking about things like randomness, the "bitter lesson" and LLMs.
haizhung 2 days ago | parent
I did a PhD in a stochastic-related field though, so I know about some “tricks” (in that most humans are too random and eg. dont sample long running sequences)
atzmzt 2 days ago | parent