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Montreal adopts bylaw banning insults against police, municipal employees

31 points MC995 55 minutes ago 25 comments

clarionbell 41 minutes ago | parent

I know that speech protections are not exactly maximalist in Canada, but surely this can't be compatible with the charter?

__s 31 minutes ago | parent

> Other municipalities in the province, including Quebec City, Laval, Longueuil and Sherbrooke, already have similar bylaws.

apparently it can be

8note 29 minutes ago | parent

the other part about canada is that quebec didnt sign on to the canadian constitution, so its only the quebec charter, which is a law like any other

yieldcrv 8 minutes ago | parent

now thats news to me, I need to look into that

is there appeals to national courts there

unsupp0rted 10 minutes ago | parent

Canada only enforces the parts of its Charter the current government feels like, and actively does the opposite of its Charter when the current government feels like it.

montroser 36 minutes ago | parent

I predict this will go badly. I would not describe the good people of Montreal as a "compliant" lot. You can't legislate respect.

alistairSH 32 minutes ago | parent

Assault was already illegal. So, this is to also ban calling the police names?

Already illegal: "I'm going to kick your ass" Now illegal: "You're a poopy head"

dominotw 16 minutes ago | parent

all jobs deserve dignity.

how would you feel if ppl called you that at work.

sedawkgrep 14 minutes ago | parent

When you have masked ICE agents abducting people on the streets and making them disappear, dignity is long, long gone.

dominotw 10 minutes ago | parent

what do montreal municipal employees have to do with ice.

arcfour 3 minutes ago | parent

You're aware that Canada is not a state of the US, right? That there is more than one country in the world?

nekusar 31 minutes ago | parent

Pigs are pigs the world around.

They only defend monied interests of the political elite and rich folk. And yet they demand 'authority', even when not at all deserved.

redanddead 30 minutes ago | parent

Unpopular distraction, elections are Oct 5th

giarc 22 minutes ago | parent

I think these are the key sentences in that article (below). This bylaw is probably targeted toward citizens that come in and berate staff because they find out they have an unpaid parking ticket from 2 years ago that they have to pay before renewing their license (for example).

>The new Montreal bylaw would ban insults, harassment, threats, abuse and intimidation, as well as offensive and aggressive behaviour.

>It also includes provisions saying city employees could refuse to provide services to someone who misbehaves. However, the bylaw doesn't define what could be construed as an insult.

cucumber3732842 18 minutes ago | parent

> This bylaw is probably targeted toward citizens that come in and berate staff because they find out they have an unpaid parking ticket from 2 years ago that they have to pay before renewing their license (for example).

That's how the (evil) people who support it will construe it. In reality that kind of stuff doesn't really bother employees all that much because it's just part of the job, they knew it going in and everyone agrees those sort of people are out of line.

What bothers employees is when they get heckled for doing (in the course of their job) stuff that just about everyone agrees is wrong, bad, stupid or heavy handed, because most of those employees know deep down they're in the wrong, and having it pointed out and having enough of the public agree with the hecklers in message if not in delivery is a real morale killer. And then your burnt out employees stop giving a shit, do a bad job, get caught on camera enforcing the "you had to lie through your teeth to defend it to begin with" policy in a way that lays bare how f-d up it is. And that's what they're trying to avoid by threatening to fine any peasant who opens their mouth.

redanddead 13 minutes ago | parent

Yup. It’s symptomatic of poor governance. Government services not working as good as they should and of course people are pissed. To be frank, the government employees are divas and aren’t effective.

You will find the same behavior across so many different government services — a culture of not taking charge, or like committee thinking. Nothing gets done.

There’s a reason people are pissed.

Idk what the solution is, my brain goes to automated government services. But that’s a goddamn mess in the USA. Singapore is a great example for good governance

IncreasePosts 15 minutes ago | parent

I'm predicting the police will use it to stifle any kind of criticism.

Like: police officer does something racist. Person says "hey, you're racist!". Police officer then gives a $1000 fine to the person for insulting them

guyzero 20 minutes ago | parent

Hostie d'tabarnak, flic.

lokar 18 minutes ago | parent

This kind of thing is concerning, but I think there is a place for rules like this.

You already see this in many public businesses. Front line workers should not have to endure abuse from the public.

But, the standard for sworn officers should be much higher.

tancop 2 minutes ago | parent

Abusing employees in a business is already banned. Harassment by verbal abuse and you can get criminal penalties if it's serious enough. Threats and false allegations are also illegal. There are existing laws for all the serious cases.

Criminalizing an insult is not the same thing at all. This law could get people fined for saying some cop is racist or even things not aimed at a specific person like wearing a fuck the police shirt. And insults are subjective so it's all up to the prosecutor and judge, who might side with the police by default when the evidence is unclear.

dlcarrier 9 minutes ago | parent

Is there an extra harsh punishment, if the insults aren't in French?

heisgone 4 minutes ago | parent

For context, police gained support for this bylaw following this video. The guy posted the video of himself of calling an office a whore on socia media. The fact the officer was so polite and couldn't do anything about it made people furious. Of course, there is real risk of abuse of this law but that's the context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9YMLpiDPWs