YHK - yet another hacker news clone

Samsung accidentally freezes its smart fridges with a software update

87 points Markoff 1 hour ago 65 comments

thesuitonym 1 hour ago | parent

The R in IoT stands for reliability.

fooqux 1 hour ago | parent

And the S stands for security.

sebastiennight 50 minutes ago | parent

We have RIoTS already... two more letters and we get a Scrabble.

someonebaggy 31 minutes ago | parent

If we'd had RIoTS this stuff might've already been fixed.

Sharlin 59 minutes ago | parent

The Q in Samsung stands for software quality.

pjmlp 40 minutes ago | parent

Every single time I see Tizen, I get reminded of this,

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-ri...

https://pvs-studio.com/en/blog/posts/cpp/0519/

OptionOfT 37 minutes ago | parent

The E in MBA stands for experience.

anon48293 21 minutes ago | parent

Certainly not in their QLED technology..

sandworm101 55 minutes ago | parent

The fridge compressor answers to software? Idiocy. It need be nothing more than a relay attached to a thermocouple. I can see having a smart screen to deliver aps/ads and to collect data on people in the home, but why on earth would that need to actually manipulate temperatures?

chii 54 minutes ago | parent

Fridge sellers dont want their product to be seen as commodities, because they can't charge a high margin on those type of products.

hylaride 38 minutes ago | parent

In 2006 shortly after I bought my (first and still only) home, I bought the cheapest Kenmore fridge from Sears (~$600 at the time) as the one that came with the house failed soon after moving in - it was probably 26 years old with metal grill shelves. I was stretched for money for a bit due to dealing with closing costs, etc. I figured it'd last 5-10 years and I'd just get a new, "better" one when my cashflow wasn't acutely tight.

Despite having since remodelled the kitchen (again spending more than expected as one does when renovating), I kept the fridge...it's still working fine 20 years later, though the plastic drawers are starting to degrade. Next to higher-end German appliances it looks a bit well worn and out of place in an otherwise very nicely renovated kitchen, which my wife and I semi-seriously joke gives the place character.

Every once in awhile I'll wander through an appliance aisle and sigh. Similar fridges feel cheap and are much more expensive. In fancy fridges, I just see more components that'd fail. I'll I really want is a freezer and a fridge. I want need an ice maker (especially after learning how gross they can get). Ideally I'd have a standard old-fashioned sized fridge that had a good separate temperature control for the freezer and is common enough that I can get replacement parts 20 years from now.

The kicker was I now realize the old 26 year old fridge probably just needed a coolant top up. Maybe that wasn't possible as I'm not sure when freon was banned and if it would have been possible to do that.

f6v 31 minutes ago | parent

Old fridges last over two decades. I don't think that Samsung and others want these to last as long.

gedy 37 minutes ago | parent

I guess the sellers and industries should have thought of this when they offloaded manufacturing to cheap countries that can and will undercut them.

vlovich123 47 minutes ago | parent

Because the temperature is adjusted and they want to be able to display the current temperature as well as the target on said display? And once you’ve done that, your bean counters will pressure you to shave the BOM.

Not saying it’s smart, just laying out a plausible sequence of events on how they reached that decision

avian 32 minutes ago | parent

> they want to be able to display the current temperature

Do they really? When replacing my 20 year old fridge (that had an actual mechanical temperature gauge) with a new one I specifically bought one that had a (now digital, of course) display for the current temperature.

It turned out that the temperature display is completely faked. It always shows exactly the set temperature, from the moment you power it on. I guess because of (actual or imagined) customers complaining why their fridge shows e.g. 7°C when they set it to 4°C.

Incidentally, my new smart AC does exactly the same thing. Subjectively it's worse than the old one at keeping the place not too cold and not too warm, but it makes damn sure to never show the actual measured temperature anywhere.

Everything is getting dumber.

sandworm101 10 minutes ago | parent

It probably has more to do with consumer fridges being a bang-bang controller situation where temperature will always fluctuate several degrees either side of the desired number.

Hizonner 32 minutes ago | parent

A thermocouple won't drive a relay.

Grombobulous 1 minute ago | parent

My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone.

That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?

I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want.

The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.

My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an option (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis machine for that).

methyl 55 minutes ago | parent

Better to freeze a fridge than to cook it

amelius 39 minutes ago | parent

This holds for most things, actually.

iAMkenough 33 minutes ago | parent

Reminded me of the August incident where the freezers at multiple U.S. Department of Defense commissionaires were remotely triggered to enter into "defrost" mode and cooked all their refrigerated food overnight.

pelagicAustral 49 minutes ago | parent

Not as bad a putting a mime in the fridge screen, I suppose...

phkahler 49 minutes ago | parent

Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?

IoT is not for me.

ex1fm3ta 42 minutes ago | parent

ioT is nice but only for people who know how to make softwares.

pixl97 41 minutes ago | parent

The problem here is there is almost always incentive to make that software shit.

WarmWash 3 minutes ago | parent

I am not an SWE, rather a hardware guy with light software experience, and the next home project on my docket is getting AI to write the code for my own ESP32 thermostat (with a nice e-paper display too).

We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.

cryptoegorophy 25 minutes ago | parent

Similar to when printer stops printing black when color is gone.

whizzter 19 minutes ago | parent

That probably means you've been wasting toner on "enhanced darkness" (check if it's turned on/off).

account42 8 minutes ago | parent

Color inkjets demand color ink for trackind dots even if it isn't used for anything else.

pygy_ 6 minutes ago | parent

[delayed]

Grombobulous 9 minutes ago | parent

I have never understood the negative controversy around this.

I expect the printer to use whatever inks it has on hand to print in the best quality it can.

The use of ink is an inevitability.

It always struck me as one of those things analogous to “I don’t understand why my car needs oil when I already put gas in it.”

Just give the machine the stuff it requires to operate.

Ensorceled 6 minutes ago | parent

This is disingenuous; a car needs both gas and oil to run. A printer should only need black ink to print black and white documents.

jaapz 5 minutes ago | parent

Your engine explodes when it doesnt have oil.

A printer can still print black when color ink is gone

xattt 4 minutes ago | parent

[delayed]

xattt 8 minutes ago | parent

There was a brief period before IoT turned to IoS, when the first manufacturers seemed to make an effort in implementation.

heisenbit 48 minutes ago | parent

Likely not just rotten food but also spoilt medicine. Content of my fridge is a lot more expensive than the fridge.

sarjann 46 minutes ago | parent

Imagine a lot of insulin gone to waste.

gumby 33 minutes ago | parent

Yes, freezing insulin destroys it, which is a problem for me when I’m outdoors in the winter.

ginko 43 minutes ago | parent

I have yet to understand what the value proposition of an internet-connected refrigerator is.

tocs3 31 minutes ago | parent

I do not disagree with your sentiment. We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed] after all. Still there are likely cases where it is useful. Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example. There are plenty of ways to deal with this but one might be a connected refrigerator.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 20 minutes ago | parent

> Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example

You would turn up unannounced with things you think are missing from the fridge surveillance camera? Here's how that should go: Visit old person. Check fridge. Check cupboards. Visit store. Visit old person.

whizzter 17 minutes ago | parent

You jest but having elderly parents tens of miles outside of town it's a timesaver, luckily I can still request photos of things.

thesuitonym 5 minutes ago | parent

Here's a crazy thought, you could just talk to your elderly family members.

bell-cot 8 minutes ago | parent

Marketing demands products that sound awesomely cool and new and shiny and feature-laden.

Why should anyone care about stuff that happens after Sales has gotten the customer's money?

account42 3 minutes ago | parent

As someone who is bad at tracking what food I have in there and how long I have to eat it until it spoils, I can see the use for some automation here and that would be complex enough for convenient updates to make sense. Similarly, when I'm at the store I don't always know if I still have enough of $perishable or if I should get more.

I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.

cesarb 2 minutes ago | parent

I can imagine one good use: plotting graphs of inner temperature, configured set point, motor on/off status, door open/closed status, and power consumption. But that use case does not require having control of the fridge compressor...

invader 40 minutes ago | parent

Did Gilfoyle hack Jian Yang's smart fridge again?

paulbjensen 39 minutes ago | parent

freeze-in-hell.bat man!

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0def6aed-0b5b-4856-874a-d97...

tiku 38 minutes ago | parent

Suck it JinYang.

bsoqk 30 minutes ago | parent

I hate news websites so much. Everything has to be a fucking joke.

diskzero 29 minutes ago | parent

We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.

I am now eyeing my dishwasher very suspiciously.

snarfy 26 minutes ago | parent

Yeah, my hot water heater has an app. I'm not happy about this.

cogman10 23 minutes ago | parent

Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life. A family member went through about 3 different samsung fridges before they swore them off for good. The compressor would routinely break after only a year or 2 of service.

I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.

Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".

konfusinomicon 10 minutes ago | parent

damn I really like my samsung fridge and dishwasher that ive had for just over 2 years. Hopefully my fate is not the same cause that dishwasher is quieter than a church mouse. if it is, back to the scratch and dent appliance store for something else I guess

malfist 6 minutes ago | parent

Why are you throwing LG in with Samsung? They routinely have some of the most durable appliances, check consumer reports if you don't believe me. They even offer ten year warranty on their direct drive washer and dryers

lmz 2 minutes ago | parent

There was a US lawsuit against them for their linear compressors: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/consumer/fridge-failures-...

b3lvedere 22 minutes ago | parent

What you should have done is install a webcam, connect it to some SuperMarket AI App Api (tm) and supply your credit card info. Now you never have to worry about food anymore. :)

whizzter 20 minutes ago | parent

Ugh, I've avoided connecting my TV to Wifi to avoid all "smart" crap but it does support some "wireless" display from Windows that seems to be local based and I do get periodic requests to connect to other devices (My conundrum now becomes, is the TV safer with or without remote connection/updates).

account42 13 minutes ago | parent

A lot of devices have optional "smart" functionality. I don't think that's nearly as bad as devices actively connected to the internet.

abroszka33 28 minutes ago | parent

I'm starting to hate all smart devices. I love my dumb devices that need no updates, internet or subscription. They just work.

aenis 12 minutes ago | parent

That, plus blocking all updates from the 'smart' devices; in the last few years, I dont remember anything getting better from updates, everything is actually getting way worse.

I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.

My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.

My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.

Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.

stevetron 28 minutes ago | parent

How to turn a refrigerator into a brick.

tapanjk 22 minutes ago | parent

I chuckled at the title.

dmpk2k 18 minutes ago | parent

An official update hard (and permanently) bricked my S8 phone back when it was still the flagship. Samsung refused to fix or replace it because I had moved overseas meanwhile.

While "technically" valid, this never happened with iPhones despite frequent travels.

Don't buy Samsung consumer devices.